- Mar 14, 2019 at 2:46 am #3583402
A recent book review (Good to Go) in Science by Christie Aschwanden discusses much of the marketing spin (or BS) promoting all sorts of gimmicky ways to ‘recover’. [http://science.sciencemag.org/content/363/6426/459.full] Selected extracts with acknowledgment as follows:
“In Good to Go, Aschwanden samples a dizzying variety of sports recovery modalities.”
“Many of today’s recovery modalities, she finds, are based on tiny studies that are not necessarily replicable or representative of the outcomes most athletes should expect. A dismaying number of them are funded by industry. And in many cases, recovery technologies that are allegedly science-based don’t live up to the claims made by their endorsers.”
“Fancy electrolyte-laden sports drinks, it turns out, show no clear superiority at hydrating the body over plain water, and drinking too much liquid can be more detrimental to performance than getting a little dehydrated. The benefits of “precision eating” and protein supplements are probably all in our heads. Icing and cryotherapy might actually do more harm than good. And fitness tracking apps—which focus our attention on a handful of metrics instead of the overall picture—are causing us to ignore the sophisticated training and recovery signals released by our own bodies.”
The bottom line is that if someone is trying to make money out of it, you can reliably expect it to be all spin and BS, with the main aim of transferring from your wallet to theirs. And Gatorade tastes horrible.
CheersMar 14, 2019 at 3:32 am #3583411
Todd TBPL Member
@texasbbLocale: Pacific Northwest
And Gatorade tastes horrible.
I’m not qualified to comment on the rest of your post, but this is right on. :-)Mar 14, 2019 at 3:52 am #3583413
W I S N E R !BPL Member
You’re all crazy.
While likely closer to a petroleum product than actual food or drink, after 8 hours welding in the sun on a 100+ degree day, an ice-cold Orange or Mango Gatorade is 32 oz. of dribbling-down-the-corners-of-your-mouth-while-you-wipe-the-sweat-from-your-eyes-in-the-convenience-store-parking-lot HEAVEN.Mar 14, 2019 at 4:05 am #3583414
The Pyrenees lie between France and Spain. The GR10 walking track (coast to coast) is on the French side, the HRP is on the top, and the GR11 is on the Spanish side. Since the weather comes from the west, the French side is cool and sometimes rainy, while the Spanish side is hot and dry.
A feature of the Spanish side is that there is often a (narrow) road to the saddles on the spurs, and a tourist restaurant in the saddle. Being on a road, there was electricity for refrigeration.
Our standard fare at the saddles in the heat of mid-day was a Magnum icecream and a Coke – both of course cold. That beat the hell out of any ‘sports drink’ – and the fats, sugars, water, caffeine and coolth were just what we wanted. We don’t buy either at home though.
CheersMar 14, 2019 at 4:35 am #3583420
Eric BBPL Member
Roger, do you know if the Coke in the Pyrenees is made with cane sugar?
I haven’t been in Europe in a long time, but I can tell you that the Coke in Mexico (made with cane sugar) is absolutely heavenly when compared to USA Coke (made with corn syrup).Mar 14, 2019 at 4:39 am #3583422
It’s a very interesting read, I finished it a couple of weeks ago, ordered it before it came out so got it quick when it was released. She’s an entertaining writer, though a bit long winded at times. IIRC, the first half or so of the book had more direct science to back up what she was writing. The second half was more supposition from leading researchers, saying more research was needed to either prove or disprove current conventional wisdom.
I’m pretty sure that this is also the book (I’ve read a couple of sports-related books recently) where she writes that urine color isn’t really a good indicator of how dehydrated you might be since it doesn’t tell you what’s happening in the blood, which is more important. She ties this in to an interesting tidbit on Kenyan runners who train hard all day while hardly drinking anything until after training is over.
Interesting stuff. Would certainly recommend.
One thing from Roger’s initial post: Icing and cryotherapy might actually do more harm than good.
Not in all cases, it depends on what your goals are, which is what she says in the book, About icing anyway. FWIW.Mar 14, 2019 at 5:09 am #3583424
do you know if the Coke in the Pyrenees is made with cane sugar?
Um. 90% don’t know, but 10% says cane sugar. It was a few years ago you see. The Euro Coke comes in slightly smaller cans than in Oz too.
CheersMar 14, 2019 at 9:10 am #3583427
Graham FBPL Member
@02174424Locale: Victoria-Southeast Australia
Not cane sugar, isn’t it from beets in most of Europe?Mar 14, 2019 at 2:50 pm #3583449
jeffrey armbrusterBPL Member
@bookLocale: Northern California
After my total knee replacement icing was by far the best and most necessary thing for me. It’s true that there may be an art to it–you need an ‘off ice’ period to flush things out. I’m curious about why the author found icing problematic.
I still look to replace potassium at least after long sweaty exertions.l Turns out pistachios are a great source. so is no salt V-8 juice (they use high quantities of potassium instead of salt. Far, far higher than Gatrorade etc.) And coconut water.
Mar 14, 2019 at 2:52 pm #3583450
- This reply was modified 6 days, 3 hours ago by jeffrey armbruster.
Jim ColtenBPL Member
Magnum icecream and a Coke – both of course cold.
We don’t buy either at home though.
ditto that! …. well, at least not in the last two years anyway.Mar 14, 2019 at 8:49 pm #3583527
“I’m curious about why the author found icing problematic.”
Not necessarily problematic. It depends on what your goals are.
Per the book (as best I can remember): Hard exercise induces inflammation. Inflammation is your body’s natural response to heal what hard exercise does, and to ‘grow the muscle’ to better handle hard exercise in the future. So letting inflammation take its natural course makes you stronger in the long run. Icing slows down that process, and may inhibit the process from completing as fully as it might, perhaps leading to less growth.
However, if you’re an athlete at a competition, you’re more interested in short term results, not long term gains. If you’re riding the Tour de France, you want to be able to compete at a high level day after day, so inflammation can get in the way. In these cases, icing makes sense.
So no icing during a training phase to encourage long term gains, icing during competition for short term results.Mar 15, 2019 at 2:31 am #3583612
Jerry AdamsBPL Member
@retiredjerryLocale: Oregon and Washington
outside online reviewed this
short summeryMar 15, 2019 at 3:25 am #3583622
@ryanLocale: Central Rockies
There’s an adage:
“There’s no such thing as overtraining, only under-recovery.”
The idea behind this is that recovery, above all else, takes time.
While there’s some (marginal) evidence that post-training hydration and nutrition offers “some benefit”, everything I’ve read in the scientific literature points to post-training supplements as offering a marginal benefit when it actually comes to “recovery”.
In part, this is because so much “recovery”-product business focuses on how you feel afterward, not on what is actually going on at the molecular/structural/tissue level.
In addition, the vast majority of this business market is targeted to non-elite-athletes. I can imagine that an elite athlete would be able to eke out the marginal benefits of a precision recovery program.
But probably not the rest of us.
Time heals.Mar 15, 2019 at 4:09 am #3583632
Franco DarioliBPL Member
Coca Cola and sugar
here it is : http://valiber.com/article/coca-cola-eng
according to Coca Cola, the 35 g of sugar in their classic Coke is equal to 7 teaspoons of it.Mar 15, 2019 at 3:37 pm #3583680
James MarcoBPL Member
@jamesdmarcoLocale: Finger Lakes
Yes, Ryan, et al is correct. nutrition aids, vitamins, minerals mineral waters, gatoraid type suppliments, etc, don’t change the fact that it takes time to process this stuff in your body, sometimes as much as 24 hours. You generally cannot have a quick fix after a 7mi run unless you do it every day. Even that takes time to build up to. Thru hikers doing 20mi/day become trained athletes, whether that is the goal or not. He is generally not equipped to drink some fancy stuff and continue on for 20mi more. He needs recovery time.Mar 15, 2019 at 6:56 pm #3583713
Eric BlumensaadtBPL Member
@danepackerLocale: Mojave Desert
When I was a cross country ski racer and summertime bike racer I would, upon waking, take my carotid pulse. If it was in the 45 to 55 range I was “good to go” for training or racing that day.
If my morning resting pulse was above 60 either I had race or worked out very hard teh previous day OR I was getting sick. By following this one indicator I usually was OK in knowing if I could or should traitor race that day. But I also had other “indicators” such as muscle ache, perhaps joint pain form tendonitis, etc. to tell me to back off a bit in training intensity.
Now at almost 76 I find my morning resting pulse is usually 60 bpm. I’ll take that. I have no high blood pressure or high cholesterol so, once again, I’m “good to go”.Mar 15, 2019 at 11:22 pm #3583772
John S.BPL Member
“Extreme muscle strain, especially in someone who is an untrained athlete; this can happen in elite athletes, too, and it can be more dangerous if there is more muscle mass to break down.”Mar 15, 2019 at 11:43 pm #3583777
@ryanLocale: Central Rockies
Eric – yes on the morning heart rate. You can take it even a step further and measure heart rate variability, which the new generation of heart rate monitors can measure. HRV can indicate training stress / sickness at a much higher level of sensitivity than heart rate alone. For me, low HRV values have almost always indicated an upcoming illness, if I’m not in a training recovery state. It’s a terrific metric to monitor when it comes to recovery.Mar 17, 2019 at 3:24 am #3583952
Tom KBPL Member
In concert with adequate hydration and a nutritious diet. I don’t think you really need much else, as a general rule.Mar 17, 2019 at 3:45 am #3583958
“I don’t think you really need much else, as a general rule.”
Well, Ben & Jerry’s Cherry Garcia ice cream maybe. But that’s all!Mar 17, 2019 at 9:48 am #3583971
Geoff CaplanBPL Member
@geoffcaplanLocale: Dartmoor, Devon
I used to run a little sports nutrition business and worked with a world-class formulator.
But the more I read, the less convinced I became that most supplementation adds anything significant to recovery, particularly if you’re not an elite athlete striving for an extra percent of performance.
The big seller is protein powder, but at most that only offers convenience compared to real food. Fancy dehydration drinks don’t seem to offer anything significant over water with a pinch of sea salt. And no – you’re not chronically dehydrated after your half-hour session in the gym. While as Christie Aschwande suggests, most of the more exotic products are based on cherry-picking tiny, poor quality studies – it’s often unclear that they are even safe, never mind effective. I eventually got out of the business…
One of the few exceptions is good quality Altai Mumio. This is an adaptogen popular in Russia, where it’s been extensively studied. I got some of the papers translated, and there is credible evidence that it works to aid recovery from training and injury. It’s used by some of the most elite athletes in the NFL and NBA, and is well worth checking out.
The other proven recovery supplement is Creatine Monohydrate. The benefits are undeniable if you aim to build muscle and strength, and it’s safe for adults if you stick to the minimum recommended dosages. But this is a supplement where more is most definitely not better. We worked with a professor regarded as the father of Creatine supplementation, and he was becoming very concerned that people are over-dosing, and also that it’s becoming popular with growing adolescents, where its safety is unproven.
For performance, by FAR the most validated supplement is good old caffeine. But you probably already knew that from personal experience. The supplement companies don’t make much fuss about it, though, as it’s not particularly profitable.Mar 17, 2019 at 3:56 pm #3583996
Tom KBPL Member
“Well, Ben & Jerry’s Cherry Garcia ice cream maybe. But that’s all!”
Uh, last I looked it is classified as a Schedule 3 drug.Mar 17, 2019 at 4:32 pm #3584001
Jerry AdamsBPL Member
@retiredjerryLocale: Oregon and Washington
Getting enough sleep is a proven way to improve recovery
According to that articleMar 19, 2019 at 6:36 pm #3584467
Sarah KirkconnellBPL Member
@sarbarLocale: Homesteading On An Island In The PNW
Nothing works better for my body than cold water, fruit and potatoes of some sort (usually in the form of salty potato chips). I get the electrolytes I need to keep on going. As for recovery meals, pretty much steak + tons of vegetables and no bread. I use a lot of iron, so yeah, I eat red meat. Minimally cooked is better.
And yeah, a good nights sleep does wonders.Mar 19, 2019 at 9:17 pm #3584490
Smart girl, Sarah.
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