The new Fire Maple Petrel HX pot: a replacement for the Sterno Inferno?

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

Excellent job!  Trimming down the Petrel pot allows you to get the weight down while still getting the advantage of the HX fins.  One thing that you might consider is trying out the BRS 3000t withthe tips bent to fit the fins.  Since you are using a foil windscreen, it might work out well for you. – Jon

[Adrian Griffin]

Titanium foil, 0.05mm works well as a windshield. Available from AliExpress. I like your idea for a floating lid.

[Gregory S]

John, how does the BRS 3000T compare with the Windmaster in terms of Pot to stove distance? I love the Soto because it gets so close to the pot bottom and it is so controllable. Nonetheless, I am always open to lighten up. Thanks, Greg

[Gregory S]

Thanks for the tip. Does the 0.05 foil stand up to repeated folding/unfolding (thru-hike duty)?

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

The burner to pot distance is sert by each manufacture’s design.  The BRS should work well as long as you are using the foil screen.  The Soto will be more robust in teh wind, but the BRS is still about the lightest canister topped stove out there.  My 2 cents.

[Adrian Griffin]

I don’t fold my windshield for carrying. I keep it inside my pot, with my smaller pot over the other end. Photos of my rig are in my February and March posts in the ‘Canister Topped Stove Performance in the Wind’ thread. I think the foil would survive tight rolling, but not folding.

[Gregory S]

Thanks for that.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

Here is a detailed article by Three Points of the Compass about the Petrel HX pot and various stoves.

https://threepointsofthecompass.com/2024/05/22/gear-talk-fire-maples-petrel-heat-exchanger-pot-and-stove-compatibility/

 

[Gregory S]

My latest iteration consists of a wider chinese pot (I forget the name), but wider than the Petrel by an inch or so. Trying to take advantage of more surface area on the base. Cut down with HX fin protector/wind deflector removed. I have added 1/8th inch sticky back weather stripping (1 and 1/2″ width) around the circumference of the pot and covered that with a silicone band. The insulation lets me hide three micro coin shaped magnets under the band. That will help me attach my wind screen. The lid again is 3/16″ rigid pink foam board covered with duct tape. I have finally embedded the reversible temperature indicator band in the lid. Twenty tests so far. Works as expected. I was surprised that the weight of the pot and lid was less than my modified Petrel by a smidge. I have tweaked (bent) the fins of the BRS3000T to work with the heat exchanger. I am very open for constructive comments. thanks to John Fong and  Adrian Griffin for useful discussion.  Photos in no special order on a small scientific scale.

 

My basic kit: pot, lid, BRS 3000T, canister support, sponge, lighter, windscreen, spoon and bag: 7.94 oz. total. The mark on my spoon indicates the depth of 1 and 1/2 cups of water, my standard amount for breakfast or dinner.  In no wind conditions I am averaging approximately 4.5 grams per burn, conservatively; bringing 1 and a half cups to 180 degrees F.

Here’s a photo of just the pot with magnetically attached windscreen. No water in the pot, but strong enough to hold the pot up.

[Gregory S]

I believe the pot is a Fire Maple FMC-XK6. Diameter 4.53 inches.

[Don Montierth]

The article says the MSR PRD won’t fit the Fire Maple Petrel, but mine does fit.  I do have to align it to get the pot on the stove, but it is not a tight fit and is not usually a problem with catching the pot on the stove arms when I take it off the stove.  It would be improved by trimming a few corners off the bottom fin support.

[Jan Rezac]

The Petrel pot can be easily modified to work with stoves with tilted legs such as the PRD and BRS 3000. All what’s needed is to enlarge the slots using a file, and possibly removing a section of the heat exchanger if it is in the way. Here is a picture of the result (and my other mods too).

[Mole J]

Both my BRS 3000 and Fire Maple Hornet original will fit in my Petrel slots as is, with a little wiggle.
Neither perform near as good as the Soto Windmaster. The BRS in particular is slowest and noisiest.

[Ben Perry]

I also have no issues with the PRD and an unmodified Petrel. My stove’s legs are a little loose and floppy to begin with, which seems to help them easily fit into the Petrel’s slots. Pretty neat.

My Petrel was $19 shipped from AliExpress, BTW.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

OK, I just checked my Petrel HX with my PRD.  The arm can fit into the slots IF the stove is off center.  Additionally, 2 of of the 3 arms do not touch the bottom of the pot, they get hung up on the sides.  Are you guys seeing this as well?

[Ben Perry]

Hi Jon… my stove fits evenly and makes good contact with the pot. Both pieces are unmodified, though like I said, my stove legs are loose and never really click into place. Not sure if that’s normal.

[Tom D.]

I don’t have the testing skills or experience that some of you have, but I’ve been doing some casual testing in the local mountains with the Soto Windmaster 3-Flex,  trying to compare the Petrel (4.9 oz with foil lid) and a Toaks 650l (2.1 oz with foil lid) and windscreen (1 oz). Because it’s not a controlled environment, I’m trying to just do a lot of boils, alternating the fuel canisters, and finding the average.

After about 10 boils each of 500ml of stream water, both are averaging about 6.5 grams per boil in various conditions the 7000’-8500’ altitude range. This is with the lowest flame that will stay lit. Winds have been pretty mild.

I know it’s far from scientific, but so far I’m not seeing a noticeable efficiency improvement yet with the Petrel over the Toaks that I thought I would see.

[Gregory S]

Tom, I like your real world test. My environment is more controlled (my basement). I’ll try the two again (petrel vs toaks), no wind, 1.5 cups to a boil. I’ll wait 5 minutes between tests to let the Soto cool. So I am just changing pots and not attaching/reattaching the stove; alternating pots. Note: my Petrel is cut down and somewhat insulated. See earlier entry. I am assuming that any advantage seen in a more controlled environment will translate to the trail. I’ll get back in a few days. Thanks for your contribution. Greg

[Jerry Adams]

Yeah, real world testing is good

It’s not as repeatable.  There are more uncontrolled effects that can influence your results.  You need to repeat the experiment more times to be sure you’re not just looking at those uncontrolled effects.

But, those uncontrolled effects need to be characterized because that’s what we’ll actually experience.  For example, if a little bit of wind will hurt your efficiency.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

Ben, it looks like your pot support arms are slighlt curved: mine are dead straight.  That is probably why your fits better.  With respect to fuel efficiency, the Petrel is a bit odd.  With the Soto WindMaster seated, I can boil 500 ml of 20 C water using about 6 grams of fuel.  With HX pots like the Stash, it consumes 5 grams of fuel.  IMO, the Petrel shines in the wind as a simple systyem (no windscreen) it works very well.  As other have said, in no wind conditions, it seems to be better NOT to rest the arms in the slots but onto the HX Shield.

If you compare HX pots, the geometries are quite different.  On the Sterno Inferno, the bottom of the HX shield to the Bottom of the pot is about 0.9″.  On the Petrel, it is only about 0.5″.  Another odd thing about the Pretrel is that the tips of  the heat fins look like they contact the HX Shield, no other HX pot does this.  My hypothesis is that if the fins contact the HX Shield then you can lose efficiency as you just end up heat up the shrouding.  It seems like a design flaw and that the pot would work much better if there was a 0.050″ to 0.1″ gap between the tip of the fins and the HX Shield.  My 2 cents.

[Tom D.]

Gregory: I like what you did with the Petrel to bring the weight down and I look forward to seeing what you come up with in your tests.

Jerry: I agree, it’s not as repeatable and I won’t be able to completely account for all uncontrolled factors. All I can do is numerous boils in the same conditions with both pots and average them. I carry both pots in with me (I’m willing to carry a little extra weight right now as I’m getting ready for a hike with a 7 day food carry and bear canister), and I do the boils one right after the other with a few minutes in between to let the Soto cool down. The 10 boils each so far have been spread out over 6 different days. I plan to do at least another 10 boils in each pot.

Jon: I’ve been watching your videos on your tests, and that’s what got my curiosity up enough to buy the Petrel to try it. Very useful info, thank you.

The windscreen I’m using on the Toaks may be helping too. It’s a DIY cone shaped titanium screen that wraps around most of the pot. I also use it as a twig stove, similar to a Caldera cone shape but smaller. When attached, it comes down just below stove level with plenty of air space above the canister to keep it from heating up, and I believe the cone shape brings some of the heat up the sides of the pot.

[Jerry Adams]

If you do 2 boils in one condition and 2 boils in 2nd condition, the difference between the 2 boils of the same condition will give you an idea of measurement error.  If that is significantly less than the difference between the mean fir each condition, then you probably have enough data.

If you measure condition 1, condition 2, condition 2, condition 1, it will tend to cancel out any linear error.  Like as the canister gets more empty, that can cause an error.

If that makes sense:)

[Jerry Adams]

“Anybody can build a bridge. It takes an engineer to build a bridge that barely stands up.”

I don’t like to take more data than needed to answer the question.

[DAN-Y]

When using alcohol as fuel, the Fire Maple Petrel is superior to the Sterno Inferno. I’ll start a thread for comments for those of you that are interested in a quiet way to heat water :-)

[bradmacmt]

@JonFong / Flat Cat Gear

Jon, I’m curious whether you’ve tested the Sterno Inferno side by side with the FM Petrel?

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