The most comfortable UL pack you've tried??

Dyneema version GG Kumo and Murmur. Also the older Gorilla fits me well. My MLD Core is comfortable but not as comfortable as the Kumo.

Hey @dgposton

The KS Ultralight packs can come in lots of different materials; VX07, VX21, 210D Dyneema or TX07 with options for different pocket/belt/strap materials as well as a different fabric for the bottom of your pack.

Laurent (the maker, who is a French man living in Japan) allows you to fully customize your pack to be it exactly how you want it to be; don’t like a mesh pocket in the front? Change it. Don’t like the size of the hip belt or don’t want one at all? Change it. Even aside from the 20+ customization options listed (with different choices in fabric or material for almost all of them) Laurent will usually do any little changes you ask him to. It’s all very reasonably priced, too, and the JPY conversion makes it lucrative.

The frame option are aluminum stays that weigh about an oz each.

My X-Pac KS Ultralight ‘KS-50’

Those are some pictures of my newly made KS50 in White VX07 with a VX21 bottom. You get a good look at the frame system, too. I spent about $266.88 USD and I added $121.56 of custom features features for 52L of space and a 16.8oz pack.

(if this repeat posts a bunch, my fault. I press submit but nothing shows up. Not sure if there’s always a delay or if it’s something on my end)

OK, perhaps a few parameters are necessary for this discussipon.

UL PACK->  To me that means less than 2.5 lbs. but hiker size could, with a 6’3″ person, bring that to 3 lbs. B/C “it’s relative”. And yes, gentle readers, I’m talking about FRAME PACKS here. So if you use a frameless pack and, say, no hip belt, please say so. That way we can compare apples to apples.

UL PACK WEIGHT-> I’d say 28 lbs. or less but  up to 30 lbs. for the big person for a 5 day trip with food, fuel and 2 L. of water. I do some desert backpacking so that sometimes means 3 L. of water on a “dry day” with no water holes between breakfast and dinner.

Remember, true SUL is “a whole ‘nother animal”. Some ULers get to the fringes of SUL and that’s fine but please tell us what your Big 4 are (pack, shelter, sleep system and cook system) so we can learn how you do it.

@ James Marco- 23 pounds for two weeks unsupported is vanishingly low. It’s a bit low even for 5 days. It must mean no fuel and very little water. Perhaps doable if you’re using a wood fire with say, a Trail Designs ti cone stove and a Cuben tarp and a SUL sleep syetem but otherwise you must fast and pray on odd days. Jus’ sayin’…

But curious minds could benefit from knowing what your Big 4 are to attain this 23 lb. weight.

Yeah, I was wondering about that 23lbs for a 2 week trip too. 14 days with 1.5lbs/day (about 3150kcal at 130kcal/oz) is 21lbs by itself so I’m not sure how that’s possible? I suppose you could theoretically get 160kcal/oz and only eat 2200kcal/day but man, that’s like eating only nuts and either not moving much or going into a big calorie deficit!  Maybe with very short daily mileage and lots of fishing so you could carry 1lb/day then a 6lb kit and not count the water? I’m curious too.

Mike P: Can you reach your bottles in the X-pac comfortably?

Sure can. And you wanted yours located differently for an easier reach, you could definitely ask him to do it differently for you

Thanks!
I’ve been eyeing those for awhile now. I can’t stand it when water isn’t accessible, definitely puts packs into the “uncomfortable” area no matter how they carry if I can’t get my water!

I hear you; if it’s a major concern and you do choose to order a KS pack, definitely make a note of it with Laurent! While it works very well for me, it might be a bit different for you! He’s very easy to work with and the customization/personalization along with the specific frame set he uses are the reason KS packs are so lucrative.

Eric, No big trick to it, actually. I don’t care for wood stoves, they’re way to fiddly in wet weather. Example is from two years ago on the Northville-Placid Trail:
Murmur (2015, minus the sitlite pad) 11.0oz
~1.1pounds of food/day plus food bag/bear bag 232.0oz
2 – 500ml water bottles (I don’t carry water to start,
since, I can get it about 2 miles up the trail.) 3.0oz
Steripen Opti + 1 set of spare batteries 4.5oz
Tarp 17oz homemade (includes guylines/stakes) 17.0oz
40F bag/750fp (old, now have a 21oz quilt) 27.0oz
NightLite (custom) 5 layer pad 8.0oz
Caffin winter stove at ~82gm (removed nut) 3.0oz
1 – 220gm cannister (2 burns, 3cups/burn, ~15gm/day) 11.0oz
Grease pot and lid (modified to 3.6oz) 3.5oz
Aluminum Cup 1.5oz
I carry a long handled ti spoon 1.5oz
Ditty bag & contents(light, lighter,bearline, ducttape, 2-1/2oz bottles of AquaMira, etc.) ~7.0oz
Map & Compass 3.0oz
sleeping cloths, jacket, raingear, dry/compression bag~34.0oz
Bug dope, some bite aid 4.0oz
(Pocket knife, I carry in my pocket. My compass is actually around my neck, but others have complained when I don’t list it. I also carry a 4oz staff that is not listed.) Total 23.2pounds

This must be what the “being good” thread was referring to.

Looks like James Marco was able to support his claim :)

BTW, I plan on loosing about 7 pounds over two weeks (13 nights actually.) Really, when I am hiking, I don’t notice it. I am often not feeling too hungry the first two or three days out. I often just have Marco’s Mud (around 3.0oz) on the first few mornings and a light supper, mostly chicken/noodle soup (around 2.5oz.) Still too excited about being out, I guess. Ha, it happens every trip, though.

The first morning I wake up hungry (second or third day) I have a a cup of Mud and 2cups of mocha along with a about an ounce of jerky. I then will often make around 8oz of rice&beans later on for supper. I never eat lunch, but if I have leftover fritters I will eat them somewhere along the trail. If not, I will have a candy bar somewhere. If I forget, I will have it for supper.

James, I don’t want to go too far off topic, but looking at what you mentioned you eat, which isn’t super high calorie density, I can’t imagine your average kcal/oz is over about 100-110/oz? So you only bring 1700-1900 kcal/day?
I’ll be honest, and I don’t mean this in a confrontational or insulting way at all as you are obviously a seasoned hiker who knows their personal capabilities, but I’d not be comfortable partnering with someone who was in that big of a calorie debt; besides the risk of bonking I figure they’d be so hangry they’d be awful company!

Well I usually hit around 2200C/day. I pack Olive oil that gets added to all the rice dishes, pepperoni and jerky for proteins and take a vitamin pill per day. I also fish, which was not mentioned, and do some foraging for an additional ~200C per day (avg.)

Anyway, I am older and only need about 1100C-1200C/day normally, even doing my daily exercise walks(6mi) with a 50# load. I do not loose weight. I hang in there around 190 or so most of the winter months. After I start hiking I get back in shape, down to 175 or so and do about 20mi per day out hiking. Last year I had back surgery, though…so I started out a bit heavy this year (almost 200.)

Anyway, I don’t bonk at 18mi/day. At least I haven’t yet. In fact, I was out hiking with a DAV and he did on a 16mi hike, so I told him to stay put and went on to a Lean-to, Set my bear line, dropped my pack and went back. Then I carried his pack the last two miles as he came down the hill. He gobbled up must’ve been like 4500-5000C that evening…I don’t think he stopped eating for three hours. I just had a 6.5oz rice supper with another 2oz of pepperoni in it and a cup of cocoa even after a 20mi day. He was really exhausted. I went out and got firewood for the evening, but he was too tired to watch a fire. Next day he was fine and we did some fishing. Like I say, a lot will depend on your metabolism, I guess. He is about 10 years younger than me, though he is retired, also.

James-

Curious how you come up with 1100-1200 calories per day. You didn’t give all your details, but standard BMR calculation for 175lb male, 60yrs, 5’10” is around 1600C per day (67C per hour). That’s for 24hrs chilling. Heavier, taller, more muscle density all means more calories, older is less, but only ~70 calories per 10yrs. Even with crazy genetics, that’s not coming down too much. And crash diets for morbidly obese or diets for coma patients are around 800-1200C per day, with perfect nutritional balance monitored by a doctor.

Then add in your exercise…6mi per day with 50lb pack. The amount of energy needed to move weight is a less variable calculation (body and genetics is less of a factor). At walking pace of 3mi/hr on level ground, 175lb uses ~600C, 225lb is closer to 800C. So total C required for those days is 2000-2400C.

Now for your hiking days. 20mi, 200lb, Flat terrain, in 6 hours…over 1750C, more if you spend more time moving, varied terrain, etc…. Add in your BMR, assuming you are lying down the rest of the day (18hrs), and that’s another 1000+C. So pushing 3000C per day, and these are minimum numbers to keep your body alive + energy requirements to move that much weight.

Would you please weigh in on how you defy the science?

He does say he expects to lose 0.5 lbs per day so he is pulling 1000 kcal per day from “reserves”.

I opted for a tad more weight and a ton more comfort for me. The comfort outweighed the others out there that have a tad less weight.

I choose Seekoutside Divide, Unaweep 3900 or 4800 size depending on my load.

Jared, As I say, I have a slow metabolism to start with. Starting about 20 years ago at age 45, I had to stop eating a lunch. I was putting on too much weight despite running 7mi/day, I was up to 185 at the time and eating a supper & some snacks at ~2000C/day. I never ate much breakfast, anyway…usually just coffee. It has been dropping about 50C/day per year, since. Now I have diabetes and have to watch my carbs, besides.

If I ate 2500C/day, I would gain close to 1/4-1/2pound per day. Fat reserves are usually calculated at ~3000C/lb. So, while hiking, I pick up an additional 1500C/day. To loose 7 pounds on a two week trip is fine. I eat enough to keep my engine stoked for burning off my fat reserves. IFF I drop below 1000C/day, I get tired and have poor recovery times. With 1200C/day I do fine. With 1500C/day or 2000C/day, I don’t notice any difference, except when I get home and weigh myself (if I think about it, I don’t every trip, anymore.) The ONLY good thing about avoiding eating is when I go hiking. It weighs a LOT less.

Hi Colin,

I believe fat comes in at 9 cal/gm or approx 4100 cal/pound.  Carbs and protein come in at 4 cal/gm or approx 1800 cal/pound.  So if your dried food gave you 50 percent of its calories as fat and the other 50 percent as protein and carbs (that’s high on the fat end, but you could do that for a week or three), you end up getting about 2950 cal/pound.  So you could go out with one pound of food per day and get almost 3000 cal per day.  If you’re doing high mileage days, you’d probably still run a calorie deficit, but for a week or two or even three, that shouldn’t be a problem.

Greg:

For backpacking, most UL backpakers strive for a 150 kcal/oz but really are lucky to get over 130kcal/oz averaged out. If we get into specifics, nut butters are close to 175kcal/oz, but the foods James listed are far, far lower; closer to 100-110 kcal/oz. He mentioned olive oil (240kcal/oz) but really, how many ounces of oil could anyone eat in a day without massive digestive issues? 2 oz? I suppose 3 could be possible but I know I’d be spending my whole day digging cat holes if I did that combined with my typical 150kcal/oz foods!

The reality is that most males need 3500ish kcal/day backpacking  so will be carrying about 1.5lbs of food per day backpacking. That is why so many of us were scratching our heads when he said his 2 week pack was 23lbs as for most of us just the food would be 21lbs.  James is “lucky” as if it were possible to cut our food weights by 1/3rd and not suffer I think we’d all be on board.

Secondly, I would argue with anyone is that no, running a large calorie deficit for long periods is most definitely a problem. It’s a HUGE problem and the reason why I said I’d not partner up with anyone who only brought 1lb/day as I know exactly how that trip would go. It’s the reason I see people bonked out on the trail, totally grumpy and miserable. Can it be done? James does it. But I’d say that for 99% of people it seriously hinders athletic performance and overall enjoyment of a trip.

And to keep this on topic, I still like the Katabatic packs more than any of my other packs :)

Colin, Actually, I average around 125C/oz for around 17-18oz per day. This gives me about 2100-2200C/day. This is plenty to help metabolize off the fats I carry around from winters around here. Even dehydrated onions are 120C/oz. Corn, peas, about the same. Clarified butter, jerky, pepperoni, go along with the 5oz bottle of olive oil. Anyway, I often pack in more calorie dense foods, but didn’t think anyone was that interested in the whole 15# food bag, my apologies, I never bothered to make a note of it. I have been hiking at a calorie deficit over ten years. These days, I usually only go out 1-2(usual) or 3 weeks at a time, though. Anyway, Some people aren’t comfortable with 1.1pounds of food per day. Some aren’t comfortable with 2.5 pounds per day. I would suggest you keep track of how much you have at the end of a two week trip. If it is more than 1/2 pound, you are carrying way too much.I would MUCH rather carry a little less than I need than carry that 1/2 pound over the whole two weeks only to bring it home, again. I remember coming home with a drink mix, a packet of Lipton Chicken Noddle Soup and 2 mini chocolate bars, or, around 3.5oz of extra food after 2 weeks.

I’ve come home with extra powdered eggs but never chocolate! ;)

Osprey Talon 44 (in black of course), 1068 gm or 2 lb 5.7 oz.

I remember coming home with a drink mix, a packet of Lipton Chicken Noddle Soup and 2 mini chocolate bars, or, around 3.5oz of extra food after 2 weeks.

I love it when that happens.

I’m in no way nearly as good at it as you are, but on a recent 3-day trip to Marcy I ate my last PowerBar on the walk out and remember feeling quite happy about it. :^)

Well Done, Bob! Yeah, empty food means a light pack.

As I said, I have a set of three packs I use. I also have two different pads I use: a 3 layer fan-fold and a 5 layer fan-fold. I think the obsolete MiniPosa has the most miles on it. Likely close to 2500 or so. The 2012 Murmur has about 1000 or so, And the new one only has about 500 or so.

I also have the older Atmos 50 (internal frame) that is comfortable with 35 pound loads, but it isn’t used much…mainly when I head out with family…just too blasted heavy at 2#11. But, after three weeks on the trail, it doesn’t really matter. Even a 3 pound pack isn’t bad to carry. On a couple of thru’s, I noticed that I often purchased stuff for comfort, that I used a lot on that particular trip, but never used again when I got back. A heavy weight jacket, a spare tarp to carry along with a tent, an extra fuel bottle, etc. I believe I gained about 3-5 pounds in base weight, overall, even starting with a 30#pack(18#base weight.)

My Murmer is the most comfortable. Caveats:

1. 3 day or less trips;
2. I carry less than 15lbs (incl food and H2O). If my trips are longer and more than 15lbs then I take my Zpack Arc Blast. My food is 16oz/day with Lays potato chips being my favorite. Yes, when you’re older, you become more efficient :). I’ll alternate between cup-o-soups and freeze dried stew. I do 20-mile days and easily keep up with the scouts.
3. See my pack list. I don’t take it all for temperatures above 30F. And if I don’t start with water, that cuts 4lbs.

I’m impressed James uses his Murmer for a week+. What a pro! I’m curious what his “NightLite (custom) 5 layer pad” is and how small does it roll?

-Barry