Tent Stake Holding Power . . . Stake length? Or Shape? Or . . .

[Ethan A.]

I usually use a combination of lighter Ti skewers + MSR Groundhog 7.5 in. Y stakes.

Zpacks offers a “Mini Groundhog” Sonic Stake – a 6 in. Y Stake which is a bit lighter.

Note that the Vargo and Zpacks Ti 6.5 in. skewers appear identical but they’re $2.50 at Zpacks and $3.75 at Vargo.

To help protect your shelter in very windy conditions, might you consider using some elastic loops to your guy lines to take some of the stress off the shelter material?

[Roger Caffin]

Fwiiw:

A very significant factor in holding power is the soil. You are going to get wildly different behavior in sand and hard rocky ground. Expect that. Equally, the top 4″ of soil has very little holding power, so 8″ or 9″ stakes are hugely better than miserable little 6″ ones. That is a place where excessive UL transitions into Ultra-Stupid.

I usually use the old BPL titanium wire stakes on the guy ropes, and some round tubes at the two ends of my tunnels where the forces are much higher. I sink them right in with my shoe. The only times I have had to resort to rocks has been when camping on sheet rock, and Ti wires won’t go into that. In general the forces on guy ropes are not all that high: you can’t put a 100 lb load on a tent guy and expect anything other than disaster.

On the other hand camping on fractured mudstone has seen me hammering my Ti wires into the shattered mudstone (into the cracks) without any concern that they might break (or even bend). They hold well and come out OK.

I do have a number of sets of those Y-shaped aluminium stakes, but I have never found them to be of much use. Too many of them have sharp top corners anyhow – most uncomfortable. Imhe, they don’t hold any better than the Ti wires when deeply placed.

To be sure, in the snow I use special (MYOG) snow stakes: angles for the guy ropes and deadman anchors at the ends. See:
https://backpackinglight.com/make_your_own_gear_titanium_snow_stakes/
https://backpackinglight.com/myog_ti_snow_stakes_part_2/
for details. But I have also use dead sticks, just for the lark.

Cheers

[Cameron M]

The problem I have had with the Rutas is not just the head coming off, but sideways blows can be devastatingly easy to break them. Wind pressure when the tarp pulls to hard. Accidentally kicking them. I have lost enough under a few different situations so I am wary-

[Tallgrass]

@cameronm-aka-backstroke thanks for the info!  Very interesting to know that you’ve had carbon fiber tent stakes break from wind pressure.  I assume your stakes were NOT all the way in the ground, right?  Were they originally inserted all the way and then the wind pulled them out a bit until they snapped?  Or were they not originally inserted all the way?

[Roger Caffin]

I find the idea that wind could break a CF stake hard to grasp. I use 7.5 mm 2-D wrap CF poles on my tunnel tents, and they happily take gale-force winds. The stuff is extremely strong.

On the other hand, if you were to use pultruded CF tubing and to mistreat it a bit, then anything could happen. That stuff is extremely weak along its axis, and splits like mad when bent.

The Ruta Locura stakes LOOK to be wrapped fabric, which should be OK – provided the point and the head are correctly fitted. Epoxy glue (or superglue) would work fine; simple compression or tight fit would leave me worried.

Cheers

[Paul McLaughlin]

You need to know your ground. I do almost all my backpacking in the California Sierra, and in the alpine regions I find skewers of some sort seem to be the best for me, as the soil (where there is soil) is mostly pretty rocky and the skewers seem to slip between the rocks better than a wider stake would. So while a fatter stake has more theoretical holding power, if it won’t go in as deep it loses its advantage. I have aluminum skewers from REI that are 7000 series alloy  that can handle being driven with a rock – as I often do when I can’t get them in just with foot pressure. cheaper aluminum stakes are usually 600 series alloy and fold under pressure.

At lower elevations, in the forest, a V or Y can work well, but the skewers still work unless the duff layer is really thick and soft. I’m almost never camped on anything approaching grass, but the few times I have been, skewers worked well for me.

In the snow I use u-shaped snow stakes and they work well.

One thing that I’m not sure has been mentioned is getting the stakes all the way in. Any time the top of the stake is not tight to the surface and the guyline is engaging the stake a couple inches up from the surface, leverage is working against you. One advantage of skewer stakes is that in bad ground where you just can’t get a stake all the way in, you can still (if the angle of the stake is right) have your guyline right down at ground level on the stake so you don’t fight the leverage. With a Y or V that may be asking for abrasion problems with the guyline.

[Roger Caffin]

We don’t have ‘duff’ layers per se in Australia, but we can have a sort of mulch just as thick. I have to scrape that away to the soil level with my heel for every stake, and they go in flush to the ground.

Cheers

[Dave @ Oware]

Rock and deadmen made of rocks or sticks. IE no stakes, just a little extra cord. Even 1mm synthetic cord is strong enough as long as the anchor material doesn’t have a sharp edge.

[Rex Sanders]

If longer is better, then these 11.8-inch stakes must be fantastic:

https://tnhoutdoors.com/collections/shop-all/products/10x-aluminum-tri-beam-tent-stakes-bag?variant=7243424727102

Plus they have a single-notch head design that might be stronger.

Strangely, TNH sells these stakes much cheaper on Amazon, $20 for 10:

— Rex

[Franco Darioli]

It also depends on exactly what type of material, in the case of the Y the type of aluminium, they are made.

I had a bit of a spat on another forum when I pointed out that some failed Groundhogs were in fact FAKE groundhogs…

The reviewer got really upset with me but as I proved enlarging his photos, the one he had were a copy made with soft aluminium .

The real thing

the not so real thing

 

[Roger Caffin]

The problem with all those Y-shaped stakes is that they can be a LOT harder to drive into hard soil. By and large, I can push a Ti wire in with my hand and then the sole of my shoe, but too often I have had to use a rock to get a Y stake in even part way. As I have never had a properly placed Ti wire pull loose, I fail to see the need for the difficulty.
Of course, YMMV, depending on your soil type.

11.8″ eh? I have some doubts as to whether I would ever need that length. Even a 7″ Ti wire is quite enough IF sunk to the head. I suspect that many of those 11.8″ stakes might never be pushed in any further than half way.

Would an 11.8″ Y stake hold in really compacted snow? One wonders.

Cheers

[Ethan A.]

In snow whenever possible I try to use dead branches or rocks buried in the snow. Or if anchors must be used in Sierra snow, not to bury them too deep or tamp down the snow too hard.

Coming from the NE, the first time I went snow backpacking in Northern California I was surprised by the strength and warmth of the sun during the day and how much it melted the snow. The day melt / night freeze cycle turns the snow into ice-hard Sierra Cement.

A friend suggested I use dead branches and not bother with the snow anchors I brought, saying they’d be hard to dig out later. Sure enough, two days later, even with solid alloy shovels most people in my group could not dig out their snow anchors.

As for the MSR Ground Hog Y stakes, they hold very well in soft-medium soft soils (and I got them as an unexpected gift from MSR after they mailed the wrong product). I haven’t tried the Zpacks “Mini” Ground Hogs.

Rex I like the neck design of those TNH stakes – indent only on one side should be stronger. Any idea on how much the Regular and XL weigh?

I like the idea of doubling up 6.5 in. Ti skewer stakes for extra strength and will try that.

For sand, I have nylon sand anchors that are very light and effective, or again, dead branches or rocks buried in the sand. I’ve also seen people use plastic grocery bags, which are light and cheap.

[Rex Sanders]

Rex I like the neck design of those TNH stakes – indent only on one side should be stronger. Any idea on how much the Regular and XL weigh?

TNH says the 7-inch stakes weigh 0.52 ounces but don’t mention the 11.8-inch weight.

Simple math says the TNH 11.8-inch stakes probably weigh 0.8 to 0.9 ounces, since they don’t appear to be thicker or wider.

— Rex

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

“The problem with all those Y-shaped stakes is that they can be a LOT harder to drive into hard soil. By and large, I can push a Ti wire in with my hand and then the sole of my shoe, but too often I have had to use a rock to get a Y stake in even part way. As I have never had a properly placed Ti wire pull loose, I fail to see the need for the difficulty.”

Wow you have consistently good soil in Australia. Here in Canada we have a lot of different conditions so I need a variety. Ti wire stakes are often good, but insufficient about 1/3 of the time so I also carry 4  Y stakes for the four main corners. Anytime I’m using the Y stakes they’re not hard to get in.

[Roger Caffin]

I carry 4 long Al tubes for the ends of my tunnels. They seem to go in much more easily than the Ys.
Cheers

[Rex Sanders]

Hi Roger,

Can you describe those aluminum tubes? Self-made, I assume?

— Rex

[Roger Caffin]

I was buying quite a few Easton arrow shafts for pack frames. One end on any arrow shaft is tapered to a point, but this is NOT the sharp pointy bit. Rather it is the end onto which the nock is fitted. shafts are longer than packs, so that meant I had plenty of ‘left-overs’.

The gold stake is actually part of a broken tent pole, with a nylon tip fitted into the end.The top end has either a cap or a cross-wire, both to help with extraction. You have to be a shade careful with the caps: they can pull out if not secured with a cross-wire. Never mind that: the tapered end is excellent as a point for a stake.

Here is a stack of stakes made up by one of my tent customers (his photo):

You can see he held the caps in place with some split pins. I am not sure whether the points on his stakes were inserts: possibly so.

Visit your local gear store and ask about broken poles. I had a bundle of them shoved into my hands for free.

Cheers

[Hanz B]

Right now I like 2 Ruto CF 9 inch , 4 ruto CF 6 inch, one ground hog, one mini groundhog, and two titanium skiers that double in my sidewinder stove.

Also some other double duty pieces ived used: My sh** shovel is great as an anchor to stick between a rock and a hard place. Pun somewhat intended. I also carry a 4 inch hollow aluminum tent pole tube repair piece (15 grams) if I’m using any poled tents which can serve the same purpose.

Comments above regarding snow anchors getting stuck very cool and informative.

 

[Roger Caffin]

If you get much thaw/freeze, you may find that any aluminium stakes will bond very strongly to the ice, to the point where you cannot get them out of the ice. This has happened to me a few times.

I now use titanium snow stakes because they do NOT bond to the ice. A bit of a stomp from a ski boot and they slide out nicely.

Took me two goes to get them right though. See
https://backpackinglight.com/make_your_own_gear_titanium_snow_stakes/
https://backpackinglight.com/myog_ti_snow_stakes_part_2/

Cheers

[Paul McLaughlin]

I find that in the Sierra in the spring, where the snow is usually pretty wet in the late afternoon when the stakes go in, and frozen hard in the morning when I pull them, that the aluminum stakes freeze in just right. Rock solid placement, but i can get them out pretty easily. One tap with a ski boot toe and then I can hook the lip of a stake with the lip of another and pull it right out. The first one is sometimes a bit more work, butthose nice square toes on my ski boots work pretty well once shoved under the lip of the stake. It may be that the snow in the merry old land of Oz gets wetter, given that you have a shallower snowpack mostly, so you may get a harder freeze than we enjoy in our Sierra spring corn.

[Roger Caffin]

Been off the air for a few days, but the huge tree on the phone line (post storm) has now been removed.
Yeah, we can get very wet snow in the evening and boilerplate ice in the morning.

Cheers

[Will Penney]

Not sure if you are familiar with the terrain in the Highlands.  Most of the ground is wet, if not completely sodden.  In the winter, this means the ground can be frozen into very solid ice.  When not frozen, it makes for a cold, very wet surface to camp on, so I normally look for a local high point, top of a  slight rise or even a  hilltop, as these are often the only place that is relatively dry and flat, and in summer a breeze is desirable to minimise midges and condensation.

These higher points seem to be a thin layer of soil and plants over bedrock, and the soil has lots of rocks mixed in it.  The chance that you can place a peg exactly where you want it is quite small.  Once you do get a peg all the way in, it usually holds OK, and you will see if its dodgy.  Often there are few or no movable large rocks to use as weights or anchors, though this does vary from location to location.

For pegs, I would suggest a mixture, I tend to use old Easton tubular type pegs, or groundhog style pegs, circa 200mm / 8″ long.  A thin nail/wire type peg might work in some places, I haven’t tried.  If you have a mix of types, you can use the most suitable for the most important points.  Extra long pegs might help a bit if the ground is soft, but if it is stony, its just more likely you hit an (immovable) rock before the peg is all the way in.

What I think is more important than the type of peg is to be flexible in the peg location.  I would try to have long-ish adjustable cords on the key peg points, so you have a good area to find a good peg placement.  The cords are also easy to wrap around a decent sized rock – if any are available.

I’d also suggest decently long guy cords as the main way of holding the tent down,  as you have lots of flexibility in where to place the peg.  The wind tends to change direction quite a bit, so take enough pegs to secure all sides of the tent.

If it’s “coming on to blow”, the best strategy might be to prioritise shelter from wind and suitability for pegs over comfort.  In other words, camp on a wet deer-trodden bog or similar.  Here, wider/longer pegs might  hold a little better, but in this kind of wet, soft ground almost any pegs should be OK.

[Jeffs Eleven]

Guyline anchors for telephone poles are really skinny but really long.  (IDK if this applies, but its where my mind went)

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Will

Slightly familiar: we have done the full lengths of Offas Dyke Path and the Pennine Way. Been across Dartmoor (got sun-tanned!) and over the Cairngorms too.
Camping above the hollows rather than in them? EVERY time!

Cheers

[Franco Darioli]

Circus tents are typically set up with very long stakes banged in perpendicular to the ground or with shorter but fatter versions at a 45 degree or so away from the tent.

From that I get the idea that if you like your stakes straight down , they better be long ones.

 

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