Tent Fabrics Question…

Oops… I’ll try again (can’t edit):

Hi all, I’d like your input on the two versions of the Nemo Hornet 1P…

The 3 oz lighter “Elite” 1P:
Fly Fabric 7D PeU Nylon Ripstop (1200 mm)

Floor Fabric 10D Sil/PeU Nylon Ripstop (1200 mm)

The “standard” Hornet 1P:
Fly Fabric 10D Sil/PeU Nylon Ripstop (1200 mm)

Floor Fabric15D Sil/PeU Nylon Ripstop (1200 mm)

I’d use a foot print of 1.1 oz nylon, so which would you chose? The Elite’s Fly fabric seems might thin…

The lightweight canopy fabric doesn’t bother me too bad, as long as you are careful.  Sometimes I end up pitching in tight spaces where I might worry about a sapling, or tree limb poking into it, but as long as you are careful, I think it should be OK.  The floor would be OK too, my guess is if you are using a groundsheet, but would you save weight by dropping the groundsheet and going to the tent with the 15d floor?  I’m not sure a 1200mm rated floor will be 100% waterproof when kneeling, etc.

Both use very lightweight fabrics – the Elite is pushing the limits, while the Standard is still pretty skimpy.

In terms of safety it really depends on the conditions.

If you generally camp below the treeline in sheltered spots and in summer conditions, either should be fine if you treat them with care.

But these kinds of fabrics aren’t really suitable for exposed camping where big winds are possible, or at times of the year where there is a risk of significant snow.

In terms of longevity and robustness, you’re going to have to treat both with care – particularly the Elite. As you say, you immediately lose some of the weight benefits because you really need a footprint for such a light groundsheet. And you’ll need to be very careful of rubbing against rocks and branches, anything falling out of trees and so on.

Personally I prefer a more robust shelter I don’t have to baby so much – the weight differential is pretty minimal. But it all depends on your priorities.

Finally, nylon stretches when wet, as you will know. And the lighter the fabric, the more the stretch. So the Elite will require more adjustment when conditions change.

You didn’t mention the $129 Premium of the Elite over the Standard.

I also notice the solid fabric in the foot of the tent is greatly reduced.  That area in these “three footed pole” designs is particularly vulnerable to being pushed in or blown around by wind…add the likely additional stretch of the lighter fabric and it seems like the Premium would be considerably less worthy in a storm event.

All things considered…the expected increase in fragility, expected decrease in lifespan, expected decrease in storm-worthyness, and the increase in price, the Premium is a hard sell for me for a 3oz savings.

This is one of a number of recent tents that use corner struts to add head and/or foot space, but with the fly stopping some distance from the ground, leaving the lower parts of the inner end walls exposed.  This will create condensation inside the inner walls, which means wet areas on a sleeping bag, quilt or clothing.  It also further opens up the fly to billowing from high winds, that can put great stress on the fabric.  It would have been so simple to bring the fly closer to the ground all around, and the added weight would be nominal.

Also, the tent pitches inner first, so is not suitable for pitching if you get caught in a downpour.  What is the sense of depending entirely on fair weather when purchasing a tent?  Might as well use a tarp.

If a tent cannot be self-supporting, at least at its four corners if not the vestibule pullout(s), perhaps another design should be used to reduce weight.   MSR was early to reduce weight by elimination of pole supported corners with its carbon pole versions of the Hubbas, and now it is all too common.  I think it is just another example of marketing trumping intelligent design.

I’ve used 15D nylon for a tent for a number of years and have had so little trouble with it that I’m ready to use it for a floor also; but for that will use one of the newer 15D fabrics coated with sil on one side and a more flexible type of PU on the other, with a mini-ripstop weave and higher water resistance than is usually found in the tent market.  I’ve found that this fabric actually sags less due to humidity and temperature change than many heavier silnylons.

Like others, am not sure about going to 7-10D nylons, and would start first with a sil/PU coated fly covering just the main tent, but not the 15D vestibules that don’t need an inner wall.  That way, if the fly does not hold up, it will be easier to make a new one from 15D as a replacement.  But that approach would not work for purchasing a new tent that you want to use as is.

Looked at the reviews of the Hornets on REI, and saw a report of the netting ripping out of a seam using 7D fabric on the lighter Hornet, and dissatisfaction with the 10D fly fabric on a heavier Hornet due to wetting out and sticking to itself while trying to get it attached in the rain.  The Nemo website states that the 10D is Sil/PU coated; but also states that the water resistance is 1200mm HH, and that is before aging, which will reduce it considerably more.  The lowest standard for waterproofing is 1500mm HH, so have doubts about Nemo’s 7-10D fabrics , and agree with the reservations expressed in this thread.

The Nemo website states that the 10D is Sil/PU coated; but also states that the water resistance is 1200mm HH
That is extraordinarily LOW for a Si/PU combination. I would have expected it to be 2,000 mm or higher. The coating must be gossamer thin – which is unwise as it will age very fast.

The tent itself? A rather fragile-looking pop-up, with all the problems that implies.

Cheers

When I did some of the desert section of the CDT this spring, I camped near someone with one of the Nemo tents but I don’t think it was the lightest one. They had a substantial groundsheet , because they did not trust the floor fabric or the floor an their air pad together. I just used one of those heavy 30D fabrics and didn’t worry.