TarpTent Ultra

Yes and we will be offering the Ultra fly only as a purchase option.  Note that the StratoSpire Ultra with standard interior fits two long, wide pads and StraoSpire Li interior does not.

I see what you did. The SS Ultra is like a middle option with a little more room. Good price. You’re not retiring the DCF version.

Good move.

Anxious to see what else is in the works.

I find it baffling that after Ultra being bantered about last spring, the BPL community is all but ignoring the Tarptent release of tents in Ultra. Trek-Lite UK is all over it. Reddit Ultralight has dozens of comments on the new Ultra tents from Henry. So where is the BPL crowd? Everyone is not afield. Has participation shrunk that much? Thousands of members? Im truly baffled on this one! What the heck is going on?

I think that the Ultra fabric is not “a game changer”, in the sense of 1. it is not that much lighter than silpoly, 2. it is expensive, 3. these are not new shelters, just existing shelters that have new material.

I think the biggest advantage is that they do not need to be seam sealed, however the cost is significantly more than silpoly. As a consumer, we see “stronger than Silpoly”, but that may not mean anything if you are already satisfied with the strength of Silpoly.

Also… these are not available yet, so hard to get excited about something that you cannot buy, and at $515-$549 price tag for a 2.5 lb 2 person tent kind of isn’t that exciting to begin with.

Like (K C’s above post)

But Bill is right about low enthusiasm these days. It’s what stand-up comics would call a “tough crowd”.

> I think the biggest advantage is that they do not need to be seam sealed, however the cost is significantly more than silpoly. As a consumer, we see “stronger than Silpoly”, but that may not mean anything if you are already satisfied with the strength of Silpoly.

True regarding sealing and cost. Where this needs clarification is use of the word “strength.”  Where UltraTNT and DCF stand apart from silpoly is non-stretch performance in wind. Silpoly very definitely stretches through the bias which means that panels move and arch poles flex in the wind. The “strength” of non-stretch fabrics is that the panels are much stronger against wind and better support arch poles against flexing.  As a point of comparison, the wind performance difference between the Double Rainbow DW (silpoly) and Double Rainbow DW Ultra (UltraTNT) is just night and day. The upside of UltraTNT over DCF is the diagonal threads in the weave which greatly limit the permanent deformation suffered by DCF under high stresses not in line with the rectangular grid pattern.

The “strength” of non-stretch fabrics is that the panels are much stronger against wind and better support arch poles against flexing.

I am not a tent or fabrics engineer… but I do know that in some cases things hold up better if they flex with the applied force than if they resist. I seem to remember in the old old days, some tents were marketed as holding up better against the winds because they flexed and deformed with the wind… (and then sprung back to shape when the wind stopped)

My point is that arch poles fail when they overflex. Carbon poles flex to a point and then snap. Aluminum poles flex, bend, and then snap.  When a fly/canopy structure stretches under stress then so does the pole structure.  Adding extra guylines at various points to lock the arch geometry against overflexing is certainly a defense but when the fabric itself highly resists arch distortion then so much the better.

How’s the pack size relative to DCF?

The wind performance sounds great.

about the same as 1.0z dcf,

my pyraomm ultra packs slightly bigger than my 0.8dcf pyraomm.

> Pack size relative to DCF

The packability of Ultra TNT is similar to 1 oz DCF meaning it is not as good as sil-poly or sil-nylon and only slightly worse than 0.51oz DCF. We are using a factory taped 20D Sil/PeU coated nylon for the floors which helps keep overall bulk, including interior, down to quite close to the current comparable “Li” series tents. What happens over time is that the UltraTNT fabric tends to soften and that improves the packability.

On a positive note, I do love all things Tarptent and the thought and creativity put into them is second to none. I have owned and used several TT shelters and have all performed fantastic and I would recommend them to anyone in any use case . The only downside is the seam sealing, the average person doesn’t want to deal with it, or pay for it, or is confused by the process. I think the Ultra fabric is a fantastic alternative and i am looking forward to seeing some other shelters in Ultra fabric. My first request would be the 3 person shelters, cause we all know 2 person shelters best fit 1 person, and 3 person shelters best fit 2 people.

> i am looking forward to seeing some other shelters in Ultra fabric. My first request would be the 3 person shelters

One of the big frustrations, from a design standpoint, of DCF and the reason you don’t see many larger  designs is the extremely narrow fabric width of 54in. “Normal” fabrics are 60-65in usable width and UltraTNT comes it at 60in.  Going forward that will make doing larger models much more feasible.

I am very excited and plan on purchasing a Scarp 1 Ultra. Does shipping in September mean it’s already sold out? I’m signed up for notification when stock available, hoping that just means in September. As time moves I think we’re able to see where DCF has its uses in the industry as a whole. It’s exciting as material sciences progresses. I’m very excited about the diagonal run. Less deformation and waterproofness without weight penalty is the grail for myself, not really weight solely.

>Does shipping in September mean it’s already sold out?

Not to worry. We don’t accept back orders and if you’re on the notification list then you will get first dibs on ordering and shipping right away.

Henry, rhanks for providing in-depth detail. So many great details learned over time combined in rhe Dipole. We’re in the Golden Age of lightweight tents for most 3+ season use, IMHO

“I am not a tent or fabrics engineer… but I do know that in some cases things hold up better if they flex with the applied force than if they resist. I seem to remember in the old days, some tents were marketed as holding up better against the winds because they flexed and deformed with the wind… (and then sprung back to shape when the wind stopped)”

Thank you for that comment DWR D, because that is just what has concerned me.

Your point, as I understand it, is about elasticity, not the stretching or sagging of nylon when wet; but rather, the ability of fabric to stretch under pressure, generally from wind, and snap back to its original shape as soon as the pressure is relieved.

Tarptent’s “Buyer’s guide” states that Ultra TNT is a “ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene (UHMWPE) fiber … a 0.94oz/yd^2 laminate fabric made by Challenge Sailcloth. Ultra TNT consists of 200D UHMWPE fibers laminated between 0.25mil Mylar films.”  The Buyer’s Guide continues with the relative merits of DCF, Ultra TNT and other fabrics used in tents.

Henry stated above that: “The upside of UltraTNT over DCF is the diagonal threads in the weave which greatly limit the permanent deformation suffered by DCF under high stresses not in line with the rectangular grid pattern.”  So my question is whether the threads, particularly those diagonal threads, are actually woven together, such that the fabric will have some elasticity.

However, it does not appear that threads in DCF and Ultra TNT are woven together, so flexible elasticity from a woven fabric is lost. This was apparent when I used Hysol adhesive to separate the threads in DCF, and discovered they were just laid in place with little to hold them together when the fragile outside layers of mylar were removed.  And there was no benefit from the ability of a weave to produce elasticity as it does in many woven fabrics.

I am not an engineer either, but for the same reasons agree with DWR D’s concerns.  IMO we should engage in some skepticism until we have some evidence and data about the composition of these new fabrics.

It’s not flex. It’s deformation.

A wood structure will flex in an earthquake. It will deform in a tornado.

It’s not flex. It’s deformation.

A wood structure will flex in an earthquake. It will deform in a tornado.

Prezactly – nicely said!

How about a Moment Ultra?