Synthetic Overquilt?

[Bob Shuff]

I recall reading or maybe it was a podcast about someone going on one of Ryan’s treks, and he offered/suggested a synthetic overquilt on top of his down quilt.  The logic was that over the course of the night, the humid vapor from your body will move through your down quilt and as it approaches the cold outside will condense in the synthetic quilt – not your down quilt.  The Benefit being that in cold humid conditions the down won’t get wetter and wetter over the days of a longer trek.

I’m wondering if such a quilt is available commercially?  I’m thinking it could be a minimalist design, maybe even a blanket style.  If anyone has made one, how little could it weigh?  Seems like Climashield 2.5 and the lightest fabric you can get would suffice.

TIA.

[Rachel P]

I use Enlightened Equipment synthetic quilts over my down quilts/bags in the winter.

[MJ H]

I was looking at that also. It looks like 11 or 12 ounces for the lightest (50 degree) one.

[Matt Dirksen]

I use a 50d EE Enigma as an overquilt (when not using it by itself in the late spring/summer). Because it’s DownTek, I trust it, and have never had any issues over the past few years. On a few winter trips, it worked very well and never had any condensation issues – even in cold/humid situations.

The 950 Reg/Reg weighs 9.76 ounces.

[Edward John M]

I have one made by Nunatak

Robic shell fabric and 100gsm APEX and custom size to fit over my big winter bag. I haven’t yet had a chance to use it in winter, ours is just starting but the principle is why I ordered it

I can’t remember what it weighs but very lite

[Duane Hall]

You could have a look at Mountain Laurel Designs Spirit Quilt series. It sounds as if this is the sort of thing you are looking for.

[Mike M]

Apex quilts in the 40-50 degree range would make for a good over quilt.  EE, Nunatuk and MLD all make suitable quilts.  I would err a little on the wide side as it’s going over top of another quilt/bag.

Not only it would it extend the range of your down bag/quilt, but also as stand alone in warmer conditions or packed into a day pack for an emergency.

I have the MLD Spirit 45 and it’s pretty svelte at 15 oz

[Bob Shuff]

I just saw this in an EE Email: The Snow Wraps Have Arrived!

Maybe this would be a light add-on for extra warmth and protection against condensation for down quilt users?

https://enlightenedequipment.com/snow-wrap/?utm_source=Enlightened+Equipment+Newsletter&utm_campaign=a2545e7c16-september_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_b4c5ed8d17-a2545e7c16-92024117&mc_cid=a2545e7c16&mc_eid=78f4b1bdee

[Lorenzo M]

I made a 7d robic overbag with apex67. Works a treat with my 20 degree quilt in the damp UK winter. Just big enough to get a short neoair in, but long enough to get inov8’s in my pack liner in below my feet to stop them freezing. I think of it as an insulated bivvi

[D M]

If you just want to experiment and can sew, polar fleece from any fabric shop will do the same thing as an expensive over quilt. Over a regular sized quilt it is 21 oz. Just as an alternative….

[Katherine .]

“polar fleece from any fabric shop will do the same thing as an expensive over quilt. Over a regular sized quilt it is 21 oz.”

I’ve thought about trying this. You wouldn’t even need much sewing—just enough to form the footbox—as you can leave fleece edges raw.

[Bob Shuff]

My question was more like “where can I buy a lightweight synthetic overquilt?”  Lighter and less expensive than a full synthetic quilt since I’m still getting most of my insulation from the down quilt I have

[Bob Shuff]

Hit send too fast.

Originally I was thinking – if only there was a super-light synthetic equivalent to a costco down throw.  Then I could use my basic sewing skills to add some snaps or loops to hook in on to my pad attachments.

[Balagan]

The closest thing to a synthetic Costco throw is probably the IKEA Myskgräs synthetic comforter.

The single size (which I can’t find on the US website but is sold in Europe for around 4 bucks) is 80×60 inches and weights around 550 grams with a 300 grams fill. Be warned that it is bulky (can be compressed into a 6l bag roughly) and the outside fabric (polypro) is fragile, absolutely not windproof and the kind that picks up all sorts of crap outdoors.

[Bob Shuff]

Nice find @balagan!  Attracts dirt and is white – what could be better :)

My US Ikea site has the twin size for $7.99.  It will cost more to ship it if I can’t find it in a store.

“A thinner duvet that keeps you comfy and cool. It can be washed frequently and at high temperatures – and it dries quickly too.”  They are targeting back-to-school customers.
<div id=”assembledSize” class=”productsubheadline” role=”heading” aria-level=”3″>Product dimensions</div>
<div id=”imperial” class=”texts”>Length: 86 ”
Width: 64 ”
Filling weight: 12 oz
Total weight: 23 oz

Length: 218 cm
Width: 162 cm
Filling weight: 350 g
Total weight: 640 g</div>

[Opogobalus]

Is the assumption here that it’s always better to have your warmer quilt as down?

Im curious as:
1) A warmer down quilt becomes much more expensive than a warmer synthetic
2) the mild conditions for your colder quilt (say around freezing), might be the most difficult for down to deal with? In a summer bag a loss of loft is probably not going to be life threatening, but damp conditions around freezing are difficult to deal with – so maybe a synthetic bag is better here?
3) your summer kit will be very fast and light – if it’s synthetic and oversized for layering it may in fact be no lighter than your mild weather down quilt… and thus your better off financially and weight wise with a mild weather quilt (venting letting you take it to warmer temps hopefully) and a dedicated winter quilt (more weight efficient, simpler) – Nunatak does a specific down/synthetic hybrid with this in mind.

Of course, on the other hand:
1) you have a heavier mild weather system (synthetic)
2) your cold weather system will also be heavier since the heaviest item will be synthetic.
3) possibly having a heavier synthetic would compress the down more when put over top? Down is more compressible, so the final winter system might not be as warm

Thoughts? Aside from cost, and weight, I guess I’m curious as to how condensation is for quilt shop in that 25-40f temp window.

[Jerry Adams]

I’ve used a down quilt in 25 – 40 F many nights and have never had a problem with it getting damp.  Body temperature evaporates a lot of water vapor.  Just one person’s experience.

I think there’s a problem somewhat below 25 F.  Maybe 0 F?  Water vapor from your body migrates through the sleeping bag, the temperature gradually goes from body temp to the air temp.  At some point the temperature will be freezing.  At that point the water vapor migrating through the sleeping bag will freeze and stay put.

If you put a synthetic layer on top, at a temp of 0 F for example, then the point where the temperature goes to freezing will be inside the synthetic, so your migrating water vapor will stop and freeze there instead of in the down.  The synthetic can tolerate the water vapor better.  It’s still heavy though, this is a case where a vapor barrier would be better.  Much less water vapor migrating through the sleeping bag.

This is all pretty theoretical to me, more based on reading other people’s experience.  I rarely go below 20 F, or maybe even 15 F.

[Bob Shuff]

Good questions from @oreoceruos, and good answers from @retiredjerry.

My situation is this, being from SoCal, and mostly camping here, my kit is tailored to warmer and dryer climates.  No need for a synthetic overquit here, but I want to venture further away from home, and trying to learn as much as I can from others in advance.

I hope to use the gear I have as much as possible, and Ryan’s suggestion to another camper with a down quilt was to supplement it with a synthetic overquilt.  This was for the reasons Jerry explained, that at certain temps the condensation would occur in the synthetic and not compromise the down insulation after days of cool/cold and damp weather.

Like Jerry, I’m speculating on the temperatures that I would be camping in outside my area of expertise.  I would like to do a fall trip in the Sierra in the next 2 months, which will have cool, but probably dry nights.  My goal for some trips to the NW might not be in winter initially, so maybe not needed there.  We do get the chance to snow camp at altitude if it’s not a drought year, so maybe that’s the scenario for me to use my 30*F or 20*F quilt and take it down to between 0* and 15*F with precipitation.  The only chance to snow camp in SoCal is one of the local mtns (Baldy, San Gorgonio, or San Jacinto) – when it’s snowing.  When the snow stops is soon melts.

Since I’m basing this on Ryan’s suggestion, I have to report that in a recent email making recommendations from the REI sale, Ryan said: “When temperatures get into the teens (and especially, into the single digits), I start moving away from quilts and towards traditional mummy bags.”  I have an old Western Mountaineering Super Apache DL mummy bag – 15*F with (I think) a Pertex shell.  It’s heavy at 46.3 oz, and I’ve really moved on to quilts, but I could never give this one up.  Maybe this get’s the nod if I’m heading into a snow storm rather than a lighter down quilt and synthetic over quilt.

Since this is BPL, the question is of course, which is lighter?  In my case an HG Burrow 20F @21.1 oz + an Ikea synthetic duvet @23 oz is pretty close to my 15F sleeping bag @46.3 oz.  I’m still interested to know if there’s a commercially available overquilt that is lighter, that could allow me to take my 20F HG or 30F EE quilt down to the 0-15 range.

Thanks as always for the advice.

[Mike M]

the Ikea doesn’t look ideal to me- the price is right and that’s about it

a 50 degree syn quilt can be had for not a terrible price, weighs in the 12 oz range, gives you a warm weather sleeping system and is small and light enough to throw into a day pack for an emergency on those long day trips

[Edward John M]

By the time you add a windproof shell to the IKEA quilt it is no longer light weight and you do need the shell to be windproof; if the outer shell isn’t windproof or highly wind resistant any minor air movemen is going to strip all the heat from your sleeping system

The important thing in my experience is to ensure that the overquilt is large enough to givean airgap of 20 to 25mm around your inner bag, I think most people forget this space when ordering

This airgap is extra fee insulation

[Balagan]

I agree that the Ikea comforter’s only quality is its price but the OP did ask for cheap. ;-)

If you have some sewing skills, you can buy proper fabric and lightweight Apex and make yourself a lightweight synthetic quilt that will be way better than the Ikea for not a lot of money. 3.6 oz Apex is only 9 bucks a yard from RSBTR and 2.5 is 7 dollars.

[Jerry Adams]

0.7 oz/yd2 nylon membrane is $8 for 1 yard x 58″ from RSBTR

so a 2 yard x 56″ overquilt would cost $46 and weigh 13 ounces

[Bob Shuff]

I looked again yesterday for some synthetic quilts, such as EE and MLD.  EE even has this nice page on layering quilts I had forgotten about.

My better half helped me make a quilt once before.  It as a PLUQ, my first hammock underquilt.  I think it came out pretty well, but not what I would consider light.

Lesson learned with this and my early DIY projects (as I was reminded), and subsequent cottage vendor purchases, is that I’m better off to buy once cry once what I really want.  That EE 50F synthetic – maybe long/wide this time to fit over my reg/reg is probably my best bet.

Thanks all!

 

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Go to a military surplus store and buy the quilted liner for ponchos. Should be large enough and if too big then cut it down one side and re-sew.

[Opogobalus]

@slbear

I think there’s a problem somewhat below 25 F. Maybe 0 F? Water vapor from your body migrates through the sleeping bag, the temperature gradually goes from body temp to the air temp. At some point the temperature will be freezing. At that point the water vapor migrating through the sleeping bag will freeze and stay put.

If you put a synthetic layer on top, at a temp of 0 F for example, then the point where the temperature goes to freezing will be inside the synthetic, so your migrating water vapor will stop and freeze there instead of in the down. The synthetic can tolerate the water vapor better. It’s still heavy though, this is a case where a vapor barrier would be better. Much less water vapor migrating through the sleeping bag.

This is all pretty theoretical to me, more based on reading other people’s experience. I rarely go below 20 F, or maybe even 15 F.

Good counterpoints. It’d be interesting to see some really serious testing on how much moisture accumulates in down at what different temps in high humidity situations (to simulate a still rainy/snowy night). I’m also interested in at what point that becomes heavier and less efficient to apex.

Like you I’m speculating.

VBLs have a lot of interest to me, but as someone camping in conditions similar to you – normally around 30f, occasionally down to 15-20 – it’s a specific technique I haven’t gotten too far into researching. I think for longer trips in cold cold conditions they make sense. For the short overnighters or weekend down to 15f, the layering of a synthetic might make more sense for comfort and not needing to invest in more specialised gear.

The overquilt idea seems to be predominantly a financial/simplification of the gear closet. For most folks, 20-30f is normally the lowest they’re camping. They might need to extend their quilt rating by 10-20f a few nights a year.
A VBL system might be more efficient for specific trips, or even these short trips, but it’s also a very specific piece of kit, comes with a learning curve and a perceived notion of being less comfortable (though VBLs advocates say this is a non issue).
A warmer dedicated sleeping bag might be a solution then – but it has the same issue of being a very specific dedicated piece of kit. And a bag at those ratings is pricey.

So the overquilt idea is cheaper and more useful because you get a SUL summer quilt out of the deal.

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