Survivalist/Preppers vs. Backpackers

[Carlos C]

It seems to me there is a disconnect between the Survival/Prepper community and Backpackers. It doesn’t make sense since Backpackers need extensive survival skills and Survivalists/Preppers need to know how to navigate terrain, travel light and have incredible endurance. Why is there such a disconnect?

[David Thomas]

For me, it is fun and relaxing to be outdoors and carrying less weight is more comfortable.  And I expect that civilization will still exist when I exit the trail.

While the prepper delight/fear is that it has all fallen apart and they’re on their own, finally getting to use their bushcraft skills, that ton of rice, and 5,000 rounds of ammo.  We’re coming at it from very different perspectives.

So it goes deeper than just my 0.75-ounce Victorinox Classic versus their felling axe and 24-inch bow saw – we differ greatly in our leave-no-trace ethic, and are we looking to do scenic miles or to create the most defensible place to hunker down?

But, yes, knowing some bushcraft skills can make you a lighter-weight backpacker when some of your just-in-case weight is be replaced with knowledge and skills.  And the peppers could certainly benefit and be more mobile if they found lighter ways to do the same things.

[Mike B]

This seems to me like a great ven diagram where one circle is Survivalists / preppers and the other is Backpackers. There is some overlap but in a lot of cases the mindset is just different.

Backpackers go from point A to point B and do not need to think about where the meal would be at the end of the trail. This being a short term objective. Whereas preppers are preparing for the end of the worlds as they know it and they think they need to be prepared to go it alone (or in small groups) for the mid-to long term.

As you said there are some common skills for traveling outside and that is what backpacking is about, however in a lot of cases the prepper is more prepared to stay in one spot and survive with all the gear that would make the end of civilization civilized (at least for a while).

 

My 2 cents anyway.

Mike

 

[BlackHatGuy]

“Backpackers need extensive survival skills”

No, they really don’t.

[James Marco]

I think of it as being far simpler. Basically, a survivalist/prepper assumes he will be out there more or less permanently with no way to resupply anything. A backpacker is simply out there till some limit is reached, ie, shelter, food, fuel, water, social interaction, etc.

The philosophies are different because the end goals are different. For survivalists, durability is primary, utility trumps dual purpose, skills are wide and varied, and a single location is usually prepared. For backpacking, smaller, lighter, less utility is accepted, since a backpacker will be moving almost constantly. Fuel us usually portioned for the length of the trip. Shelters are chosen for the season…and so on.

[Jerry Adams]

you can buy dehydrated food from prepper places at less price than REI

don’t most preppers stay in their home?  Like, in a rural location.  Dig an underground shelter.  Lots of guns and ammo aren’t portable.

[Kattt]

I think it’s more in this community right here that there is a “disconnect”, to use your own words. I know outdoor people that practice their survival skills and backpack a lot. BPL is probably the one place that has the most contempt for preppers/survivalists.

Preemptive partial disclaimer:

^^^ contempt is a bit strong but there have been some opinions  expressed here that almost qualify.

[Jerry Adams]

yeah, probably contempt a bit strong but something along those lines : )

I think preppers are fringe in the population as a whole

[Todd T]

Backpackers need extensive survival skills

I agree with Doug. Almost nobody needs “survival” skills if he simply prepares before going out. Sure, if my plane crashes in Siberia and as the only survivor I have to hike 100 miles to civilization, I’ll wish I’d watched Survivor Man a little closer, but that really is the kind of scenario it would take to negate simply being prepared.

[Monte Masterson]

There’s a difference between Survivalist/Preppers and Survival enthusiasts. The first types are the ones who are preparing for an SHTF scenario. They tend to be far right zealots who adhere to a lot of conspiracy theories .Preppers says things like: “the forces of a one world government want to take away all of our guns and enslave us.” They often stockpile food and ammo for the coming apocalypse.

Then there are the Bear Grylls wannabes like me who watch all of the survival shows. read survival books and view countless bushcraft YouTube videos. We’re more into acquiring skills that would allow us to survive if we got lost in Peru or got separated from our pack in British Columbia for example. It’s mostly for fun, however, survival skills are good to know.

The only similarity between backpackers and survivalists is the fact that they both carry gear that will allow them to be comfortable in the outdoors.

[David Thomas]

What I learned from Bear Grylls about how to spend a comfortable night away was to back my hotel room in advance.

Still, knowing which bugs to eat doesn’t mean you have to. Until you do.

[W I S N E R !]

I think it’s safe to say that a good deal (majority?) of backpackers will spend their entire outdoor careers walking maintained trails in National and State Parks where “bushcraft” or “survival” activities are actually explicitly prohibited, ranging from not disturbing flora/fauna to not having simple backcountry campfires.

In my opinion, any serious “wilderness survival” curriculum should probably contain a healthy amount of practice in hunting, trapping, and fishing.  Many of which are also prohibited in parks and top backpacking destinations.  But I think the real issue is that these activities inevitably raise the firearms/animal rights/ethics issues which become so problematic to discuss (especially online).

When it comes to backpacking and “survival” skills, I personally find the greatest overlap in the hunting community.   But this community isn’t very well represented or catered to in the mainstream “outdoor” world***.  Fishing yes, as evidenced by Patagonia’s stance, but it’s interesting that as soon as firearms/archery/birds/mammals are involved, most of the major outdoor companies/communities/advocacy groups that cater to backpackers, campers, and hikers (REI, OR, Patagonia, The Sierra Club, etc.) immediately distance themselves (despite many, interestingly, maintaining military contracts).

Generally speaking, I think attitudes towards hunting/firearms are actually a big part of where the fractures between the “survival/bushcraft” and “backpacker/hiker” outdoor user groups begin.

 

Edit****I say “mainstream” outdoor world from a West Coast perspective: REI, Patagonia, etc.  Interesting that in other parts of the country, Bass Pro and Cabelas represent the “mainstream” outdoor world.  Interesting to look at where you can find camo in an outdoor store and where you cant…Evidence of the pretty serious divide between user groups.

 

[Jacob]

Besides the significant difference in goals, as others have said there is very little overlap in practice.

LNT turns backpacking into a sport. Backpackers bar themselves from using the environment, other than openly available water sources, to survive.

If backpacker’s could use the environment, going uber light would mean carrying a quilt with some bread and a knife for a thru-hike.

If there is any overlap in skills its in the MYOG community…

 

 

[Brad Rogers]

Backpacking, especially ultralight backpacking has much more in common with trail running, packrafting, bike touring, ultra marathons, etc than with preppers/survivalist.  We also share more with backcountry hunters than preppers/survivalists.

One could even argue that they are completely different philosophically, where a prepper is stockpiling everything they can for a potential dooms-day scenario,  an ultralight backpacker’s goal is to take only what they need and nothing more to go as fast and light through the backcountry and nothing more.

[Jerry Adams]

I was reading somewhere, outside magazine probably – backpacking and hunting communities have a lot of benefit to allying.  They both want to preserve government owned wild land.

I encounter hunters occasionally.  I usually make some stupid joke about warning bambi that there are hunters out or I’m not going to tell them where I see any animals.  Hunters have always seemed pretty reasonable and friendly.    I think 99% of hunters are reasonable and I have no problem with legal hunting.  I don’t want to see anything gory though : )  I’ve killed a couple fish before and a few rats and moles but have come to realize that’s futile, the moles don’t do much damage and do some good, if I don’t attract rats they won’t be a problem.

[Ben C]

Coming from the Bass Pro Shop perspective, the biggest difference is: Zombies!  There’s no zombie-defense aisle in the REI.

[Tipi Walter]

Here’s Jacob’s post—

Besides the significant difference in goals, as others have said there is very little overlap in practice.

LNT turns backpacking into a sport. Backpackers bar themselves from using the environment, other than openly available water sources, to survive.

If backpacker’s could use the environment, going uber light would mean carrying a quilt with some bread and a knife for a thru-hike.

If there is any overlap in skills its in the MYOG community…

And thank you Zeus that most backpackers bar themselves from using the environment.

I just got back from a 24 day backpacking trip in the mountains of TN/NC and found this at a campsite abandoned by a wannabee davy crockett—

Now imagine if all backpackers wanted a living fir tree bough bed.  Oops, goodbye evergreen trees.

A couple years ago I was backpacking thru Citico Creek wilderness in TN and found the leftovers of some idiots who cut down about 40 rhododendron bushes next to South Fork Creek and set up this monstrosity—

I went back about 4 months later and this is what remained—

South Fork Creek is visible in this pic.  Now imagine if every backpacker does the same thing for shelter—kiss your public lands goodbye.  (It’s bad enough that the USFS bulldozes and logs our lands).

One time I was tooling down the North Fork trail and found this in a campsite—

They cut living trees for their few moments of drooling daniel boone excitement.  The worst part is they left their fire burning unattended because they never came back!!  (I pulled apart the “furniture” of course and scattered the wood.

So, I call bushcrafters— “Bashcrafters”—and you can see why.

[Monte Masterson]

Looking back at my first post I can see that I might  have categorized preppers in a way that’s not fair. It’s never good to pigeonhole any group. Actually when you look at what can happen after natural disasters such as huricaines, some lightweight survival prep might not be a bad idea.

For those not familiar with the term “bug out bag” , that’s basically gear that will allow you to survive out in the elements if you suddenly need to move on foot, like after a catastrophic event. Or maybe hostile forces have taken over and you need to go on the run. Sounds laughable I know, but no one can guarantee what the future will bring (at least from a preppers point of view.). However, some survivalists do understand the importance of packing light. Take the ex Green Beret in the video posted below. He calls his setup “ultralight” but from a BPL perspective it’s just lightweight. I can see a few items such as the stainless steel cup/water container that look needlessly heavy. He says you should never pack over 10% of your body weight in order to remain highly mobile, and I totally agree.

 

 

 

[James Marco]

Yeah, I can understand that. Emergency or “Bug Out” bags are always handy to have. No, they don’t contain much, if any food. But you have to look at the requirements of what you need in an emergency.
Shelter, water, food, FAK in roughly that order.
You need these things or the means to make them. Again, depending on where you live, how far you have to travel to a safe location, how many people you are responsible for (and how many people can assist in tasks,) this will change. Some will opt for self defense. Some will opt for multi-purpose tools. Some people are nasty. Some are great. It all depends… I find it difficult to accept a 10% rule for a base load. I think it will be a lot more than 10% for most people.

[HkNewman]

In his book, the barefoot survival celeb, Cody Lundin, made a point Americans just really need to know how to survive when their car dies on a remote trip, … even though he has an off-the-grid residence/lifestyle.  Granted it’ll be different if the car doesn’t start in a remote desert in Arizona vs a remote forest in Alaska. The essence is we can survive with food for awhile, but it’s regulating core temp (have a sleeping quilt for that), and likely water (plan my trips for water anyway as I hate packing the stuff).

 

My copy of his first book is gathering dust somewhere, so from the Amazon product description:

…
Cody Lundin, director of the Aboriginal Living Skills School in Prescott, Arizona, shares his own brand of wilderness wisdom in this highly anticipated new book on commonsense, modern survival skills for the backcountry, the backyard, or the highway. This is the ultimate book on how to stay alive-based on the principle of keeping the body’s core temperature at a lively 98.6 degrees.

In his entertaining and informative style, Cody stresses that a human can live without food for weeks and without water for about three days or so. But if the body’s core temperature dips much below or above the 98.6 degree mark, a person can literally die within hours. It is a concept that many don’t take seriously or even consider, but knowing what to do to maintain a safe core temperature when lost in a blizzard or in the desert could save your life. Lundin delivers the message with wit, rebellious humor, and plenty of backcountry expertise.

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

I have found some useful information from prepper websites, but I don’t consider myself a prepper. I do sort of think of myself as a sort of prepper of the future, as I’m pretty sure that the government is going to find some way to crash the economy right when I need to cash out my retirement and that I’ll probably spend my old age living in a cardboard box under a bridge. Well, if that happens, I’ll live out of a backpack on the trails, but in the off-season I’ll be living under the bridge.

What bugs me is if I’m watching backpacking videos the stupid youtube algorithm wants to send me to mentally ill right wing prepper bullshit. I’m never more than one click away from that garbage. I’d really prefer if instead of that they suggested videos about nature photography or videos about birds and flowers in the wilderness, but no, that doesn’t fit the world domination plans of these software company oligarchs.

[David Thomas]

Bug-out packs:

“Or maybe hostile forces have taken over and you need to go on the run.”

Or maybe hostile forces just stay away like when a hurricane hits Puerto Rico and their government (you know, the US government) doesn’t want to help.

We’ve had to leave our house not because of a 7.1 earthquake – our house was fine, I built it.  But four neighbors’ houses and the natural gas lines weren’t as well built and we all on fire.

All winter, almost all Alaskans travel with winter clothes, food, sleeping bag, etc in their trunk and don’t let their gas tank gets below half full.  A friend, back when Alaska always had real winters, realized that come October, she didn’t need to limit herself to granola bars and canned corn in the trunk.  She could put Hagen Dazs ice cream bars back there and they’d be fine through April.

[Author]

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