Topic

Study Results: Gore-Tex Not Worth the Cost Based on Breathability Alone

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
PostedJun 10, 2016 at 3:51 am

By <span class=”s1″>Mike Harostock, Andy Rampp, Adam Scott and Rob Shaul @ Mountain Tactical Institute</span>

“You begin a brisk uphill hike, in 35-degree weather and steady rain.  You are wearing a “waterproof, breathable” jacket and carrying a 45# ruck or pack. You begin to heat up, but must continue to wear the jacket or risk getting soaked through by the rain.  If your jacket is 100% breathable, your base layers can vent and remove the sweat, if not, your base layers get soaked. After 60 minutes the temperature has dropped to 25 degrees, and for safety reasons, you have to stop moving. If your base layer is soaked with sweat, you begin to freeze.”

This scenario describes the mission-direct utility of a waterproof, breathable jacket.

Different fabric manufactures deploy different fabric technologies to achieve fabric breathability. Two were were interested in testing for this study was coating, and a membrane. Gore company first developed breathable fabrics, with is now ubiquitous “Gore-Tex.”

Gore, and others, have demonstrated the breathability of these products in laboratory settings and infomercials such as this. However, we could not find a functional, mission-direct study or test of breathability. Which led us to this study.

Five Jackets were tested:

Jacket                                   Cost             Fabric
Colman Rain Jacket          $15                PVC (We wanted to compare to a non-breathable jacket)
Marmot PreCip                    $100             NanoPro Coating (Marmot’s proprietary coating)
Marmot Minimalist            $200              Gore Paclite
Marmot Nano                      $300              Gore Active Shell
Marmot Alpinist                  $600              Gore Pro-Shell

With the exception of the Colman rain jacket which we purchased at a local sporting goods store, we chose Marmot brand for the other jackets assuming sizing and fit would be consistent. All jackets were size large.

Our study results were pretty decisive.  We found that a breathable jacket<span class=”s1″> can help decrease sweat retention by as much as 500% when compared to non-breathable jackets.  We also found that breathability alone accounted for less than 9% of jacket price differences.  In-fact we found the cheapest breathable jacket, the Marmot Precip ($100), was actually more breathable than all three of the Gore-Tex models ($200, $290 and $600).</span>

Full report can be found here:  https://strongswiftdurable-gliffendesignsll.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Jacket-Breathability.pdf

PostedJun 10, 2016 at 4:28 am

Already one remark:

you list the Marmot Alpinist as Pro Shell, but they list it simply as Pro although Pro is supposed to be air-permeable and in the study it’s not.

PostedJun 10, 2016 at 4:47 am

Since this study was done by the Mountain Tactical Insitute, I assume this is for mountain pursuits which would probably rule out my poncho in the scenario.

Roger Caffin BPL Member
PostedJun 10, 2016 at 5:03 am

Yeah, that’s about right for Gore-Tex. The premium price pays for the heavy marketing and the guarrantee. But it is still a PU coating in harsh reality (aklthough Gore make zero mention of this).

Cheers

 

James holden BPL Member
PostedJun 10, 2016 at 10:12 am

BPL did a study a few years ago where they found the gore active jacket to be the “most breathable” … they did humidity measurements inside the jacket

i have a pair of marmot precips pants and they arent “breathable” at all … even less so than my decade old gore GTX pants

one thing that folks dont take account is that you dont buy goretex for the “breathability” but for the durability

theres many other more “breathable” fabrics out there event, neoshell, paramo, etc … and if you want one with a minimal chance of failure get goretex …

theres plenty of threads on places like UKclimbing (those brits really know their rain) about the failure of various events, neoshells, etc … theres even a few on BPL … and a simple search on google of “marmot delamination” will show you various issues with their proprietary fabrics …

many a BPLer has had delaminating issues with various 2.5L jackets

with gore its usually wont fail in the field, and theres also the additional warranty if something happens …

in the end the “breathability” is a moot point as if your using it enough the DWR will fail from abrasion and use

note also that the test is done at 60F (15C) which is really too hot for me to wear a WPB jacket anyways (just wear a fleece and get wet) … and its done a 45% humidity, when it rains up here and you really need a rain jacket the humidity tents to be 80-100%

;)

 

 

PostedJun 10, 2016 at 11:08 am

At the end of the report, they mention that they hope to expand the study to include eVent, NeoShell. … and to also be able to study other things like durability, …

What I found ‘funny’ is that they say that they tested ‘in real world conditions’ but that everything happens on a treadmill and without any form of precipitation.

BTW, the additional warranty of Gore is only if the failing part is touching your body e.g. not a chest pocket thus.

:)

James holden BPL Member
PostedJun 10, 2016 at 11:17 am

bahhh … dead bird will cover a chest pocket just fine

or just buy OR … a bear can eat you in your jacket, regurgitate you and your beneficiaries can send the jacket back to OR for a replacement

thats how good OR is

;)

PostedJun 10, 2016 at 11:25 am

It’s just that people don’t think: the brand will lot warranty it but no problem as there is the additional warranty of Gore.

:)

James holden BPL Member
PostedJun 10, 2016 at 11:51 am

many folks here with 2.5L or UL rain jackets have or will have their jackets fail on em eventually with enough use

and theres an excellent chance itll be fabric failure

zippers, seams, etc … are usually covered by most manufacturers …. fabric failure can be a cr@pshoot …

if theres once piece of gear that will eventually fail you itll be an UL rain jacket with enough use

these arent the old “bomber” heavy goretex rain jackets that last like 10-20 years of good use

;)

PostedJun 10, 2016 at 12:09 pm

I know but I just mean that if there is a fabric failure at a pocket with outside access and the manufacturer won’t warrant that, but you also think that Gore’s additional warranty will cover it, you might get a nasty surprise.

:)

James holden BPL Member
PostedJun 10, 2016 at 12:20 pm

well if the pocket has a mesh inner … then gore will cover it ..

but if its a “waterproof” pocket … then you arent getting wet though your fancy iphone might …

not to mention those waterproof pockets are not reliable anyways as the “waterproof” zips might leak

and as you know the delamination tents to happen with contact with body oils … with a waterproof pocket theres much less chance of that happening

ahhh .. BPL

just buy an OR … thats really all there is to it

;)

PostedJun 10, 2016 at 12:59 pm

Only, finding here clothing from OR is impossible. Gloves ? Yes. Gaiters ? Also yes. Clothing ? No, no and no.

:)

wayne R Clark BPL Member
PostedJun 10, 2016 at 2:43 pm

marmot have completely changed the laminate and membrane they use in their proprietary waterproofs in recent years, far more breathable than the previous version…

three layer trumps two layer for durability.  cheaper membranes may not last as long…

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