Snow Anchor Question

[Bonzo]

Looking around in the garage the other day, I realized that I have a small pile of some very thin pieces of aluminum and titanium that’s kind of in the way and needing to be sorted and stored.  So, instead of doing that, I said to myself: “Self, that’s a project waiting to happen”…and I started sketching up a lightweight snow anchor. (Turns out that the PNW gets actual snow in the winter; who would have thought?)  I got a few rough designs pencilled out – no reinvention of the wheel, here, just a desire to minimize weight and conserve pack space by sizing things correctly – and I got to the part where I was drawing a bunch of holes in the flat sections of the anchor, and I thought “Gosh, that’s rather Swiss-cheesey…would it help to dimple those holes?  Or should I stamp some kind of indentation into it, maybe?”

So yeah, that’s the question: should I bother with any stamping/pressing operations in order to add any rigidity and strength to the anchor?  Or, conversely, should I not bother with any of that, and just perforate as needed?  I’d like to be able to stack these together as neatly as possible; I don’t see a dimple or indent necessarily precluding that packaging.

Thoughts and experience are most welcome.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

sketches (with dimensions) would help to visualize what you are talking about.  My 2 cents.

[Bonzo]

sketches (with dimensions) would help to visualize what you are talking about.

I’ll draw up something that’s a little more comprehensible than the hieroglyphics that are my normal working drawings…but the main question is simply whether or not a thin snow anchor would actually benefit from dimpled skeletonizing, or from a strengthening stamp.  That question is independent of dimensionality…to an extent.

As far as dimensions are concerned: I actually don’t have any, yet.  I haven’t started to figure out how large the anchors actually need to be in order to hold the load that will be on them; that’s a question of further research on my part.  Overall size…eh, maybe somewhere around 4″x6″/10x15cm as a starting point?  They won’t be holding much of a tent; just a little two-pole Bibler-style thing.

[Bruce Tolley]

@ Bonzo. If you look at the competition on the market you can see that length and width are important.

The snow also needs to sinter to the stake so the surface of the material matters. Wood deadmen work so much better than metal deadmen for that reason I think.  In my experience, a pencil sized piece of wood works better than a metal deadmen that has much greater surface area.

The last two winters I experimented some of my summer stakes to see if they could serve as deadmen for winter.  The only ones that worked at all were v-stakes with holes in them that are available from several vendors.  So I think the holes help the snow sinter better to the stake.

See for example, https://zpacks.com/products/titanium-v-stake-w-red-head

The commercial snow stakes I own from Seattle Manufacturing Company are all forms of v stakes and the directions are to have the v face the shelter to increase holding power.  But I also have some old SMC T anchors that are just shield shaped pieces of metal with no V (and now copied by a couple of cottage vendors in titanium) that work fine and are my favorite snow anchor. Photo here: https://www.moontrail.com/smc-T-anchor.php

[Bonzo]

Thanks for that info, Bruce… especially the part about surface quality.  I thought that I might sandblast these with a rough media, or do something similar to give the surface an even roughness.

Here’s the most accurate of my rough sketches; I haven’t had time to sit down and do an actual drawing.

Pictured: Gibberish.

Basically, a rectangle with two clipped corners, a light bend to stiffen the vertical edges, and a series of holes to lighten things up and allow a pass-through area for the snow to help lock it in place.  The holes may or may not have a light dimple to stiffen the flat surface.  The connecting line could be as simple as a loop/toggle passing through from the rear.

[Bonzo]

Also, for anyone that doesn’t know what dimpling is…

Pictured: It’s this.

I shamelessly stole that picture from Rogue Fab, but I’m pretty sure that I have a set of their dimple dies around here somewhere, so that makes it…well, it’s still probably some kind of infringement, but whatevs: it’s a great picture of the technique.

[Steve S]

Answer depends on the snow conditions and seasons of use, from my experiences.

In the Pacific NW dry cold powder snow is found generally in the fall and early winter, while only in deep winter is it ever likely to remain fluffy. Rain is possible during any month.

You can compact cold snow and let it set up; so even a relatively small stake would hold, if undisturbed. Disturbing the stake fractures the snow, so a bigger surface is useful, since then the snow recompacts and solidifies.

Not so on wet or corn snow. Need some surface area to resist movement, but not necessarily much. Biggest risk is the tug at the top of the stake, so a tie 3″ down a 7 inch long stake made with a modest V with 1.5 inch wings would be more than sufficient for most conditions. The V shape prevents the stake from twisting with movement, presenting a smaller face, and slicing through the snow.

I’ve used a shovel at the critical tie down in a storm, but (possibly due to luck) I’ve never needed full on snow stakes — or anything as large and heavy as what I described here. A 1″ by seven convex aluminum stake tied from the middle is pretty bomber. Most full-on snow stakes are larger and significantly heavier, but I think they are rarely needed. Roger will probably disagree.

The snow may freeze to a cold sky, but you can’t trust that mechanism for holding your stakes in place on a rainy night in the PNW. And when the snow does freeze to the stake, packing the stakes in the morning is a pain.

The best argument for cutting holes seems to be reduced weight; the best argument for dimpling is to stiffen an otherwise too-light structure. Both will reduce the tendency for a stake to pull out of the snow if anchored at the top.

Holes in a fairly narrow stake can be a tremendous advantage for setting up camp quickly — treat the snow much the same as a meadow and just push the stakes in — into the compacted snow of the tent platform, when appropriate. Works well below timberline, and most nights above — on corn snow in any season. In a good blow they offer poor comfort; so one gets up, refastens the tie to the middle of the stake, buries the stake, and goes back to bed.

I think your design is overkill and heavy; but bomber, even sans holes and dimples.

 

 

[Roger Caffin]

Most full-on snow stakes are larger and significantly heavier, but I think they are rarely needed. Roger will probably disagree.
Not necessarily.
It ALL depends on the type of snow and the ambient temperature.
As many know, I don’t use aluminium here in Oz. The snow/ice tends to freeze overnight onto the surface of aluminium so I can’t get the stakes out in the morning. So I use titanium instead. Articles in BPL for this:
https://backpackinglight.com/make_your_own_gear_titanium_snow_stakes/
https://backpackinglight.com/myog_ti_snow_stakes_part_2/

The angles are for the side guys. The bigger deadman anchors are for the two ends of my tunnel tent.

That said, I remember one night when it rained in the snow. The tent poles sank steadily throughout the night! The rain water ran down the surface of the fly and down the bottom of the poles, into the snow. You can imagine what that did to the structural integrity of the tent. Fortunately there was no wind that night.

So – it all depends.

Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

Ah yes: holes. I tried them, and found that if I wanted to keep the strength up the weight saving from the holes was minor.
Sad.
Cheers

[Sam Farrington]

The best remedy for soft ground, whether it be sand, snow or other, is a self supporting pole network that anchors the tent, but does not require the stakes to hold it up.  It will place much less stressful forces on the stakes, and greatly reduce your carry weight.

[Author]

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