Snakes!

[David Thomas]

“don’t listen to head phones in rattler country! “

The year I got my iPod and started listening to tunes on the trail, I saw 5 grizzlies.

I stopped doing that, at least in Alaska.

[Jerry Adams]

So, you’re saying that if you listen to tunes there are more grizzlies?

Or, since you saw the grizzlies, it was okay to listen to tunes?

[David Thomas]

That getting lost in my thoughts due to music or podcasts is a bad idea – I should stay more aware of my surroundings and make noise where there is background noise, food sources, and/or poor sight lines.

[Jerry Adams]

then you should have a speaker to loudly play your tunes to scare away grizzlies?

(maybe I should keep my day job?)

To make a serious comment, I usually wear ear buds and listen to podcast or radio.  But I have the volume pretty low.  Some risk though of something bad happening.

[Gary Dunckel]

A recent study by top scientists at an esteemed U.S.research university confirmed that grizzlies have an astounding hearing capability. Moreover, they concluded that the bears really like to listen to music (talk radio, not so much), and that they are attracted to anyone listening to tunes through their earbuds. So there you have it…the science is there.

Now back to your regular snake discussion.

[Jerry Adams]

I listen to talk radio or podcasts so I should be okay : )

[Bill in Roswell]

I’ll second Brad’s comment about copperheads in the southeast. They love to build nests near water and they love to hang out around deadfall (of which after the past year of bad weather there is an abundance). Adult copperheads will not eject venom on first bite – that is their warning. Young copperheads don’t know that and will eject venom on first bite. I had a copperhead encounter in Pisgah NF a few years ago. I escaped the narrow trail we shared by dropping a log to block it’s strike as I jumped over it. Crazy, yes! When I got home, I looked up copperheads and turns out NC leads the nation in snake bites, nearly all copperheads! The problem is they are masters at blending in with leaves and sticks. Be super careful crossing over logs and deadfall – they’ll lay in shadows waiting for a mouse to cross a limb. Deadfall by a creek is prime nest territory. Nothing like seeing a literal ball of baby copperheads to freak you out! I lived in TX and OK, hiked NM, AZ and CO, never worried about rattlers as I knew to not stick my hand down a dark hole. Cut copperheads are sneaky critters!

Cheers,
Bill in Roswell, GA

[Bill in Roswell]

Brad and Tipi may find it interesting that I was recently hiking at a nature preserve in Otto, NC. Next to a trail lay squares of tin roof with a number. At the end of the trail there was a sign – “Snake counting project – please do not move the tin squares”!
One of the oddest encounters I’ve had in the wilderness was at a remote waterfall in Arkansas. It was mid-March, cold nights but warm sun. On a big flat expanse of rock about 30 feet wide, laying in the sun was a copperhead on one side and a timber rattler on the other! I wonder if they tossed a coin for the first mouse to come by?
I know I’ve scared up a bunch of snakes while hiking cuz the folks hiking behind me tell me they see them scurrying off!

[Duane Hall]

As to headphones in the backcountry: I often see people using these on in their shelter at night.  God.  If something big comes into my campsite in the black of night, I want to hear it :)

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

Hiking the PCT in two large sections and then multiple section hikes after completing the trail and after all those miles I only got to see/hear 5 rattlenakes. I’ve seen a lot more on day hikes. They always scare the bejesus out of me, but I like to take a look after I’ve calmed down a bit.

It’s true that if you hear one you’ll know exactly what it is before your brain figures it out. Fight or flight instincts will kick in, probably all flight and no fight.

[Monte Masterson]

“Moreover, they concluded that bears really like to listen to music”

I’ve heard that Night Prowler by AC/DC is one of their favorite tunes, but I haven’t been able to confirm that yet.

[Graham F]

I think Snakes don’t like ‘What’s my scene’ by the Hoodoo Gurus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2vjGGEnE6U

Stumbling along, singing along to the song above(distracted) on my phone. Tiger snake stands up to about 30 centimetres and strikes at my left calf, I jump both vertically and horizontally -yes it can be done, and land about 2 metres away. Shit scared as we say here-takes me while to check my calf, fortunately no bite. The whole time the snake is motionless, head raised poised. Moral- don’t listen to the Hoodoo Gurus. I love them but snakes I am sure now, do not. Bought an Inreach after this-there was no phone reception.

[Steofan M]

“The sign has become every bit the real conversation starter that we had planned” said one of the Rangers at Agate Fossil Beds, south of Harrison NE. Not sure if the pun was intentional.

[MJ H]

It was too long ago for me to remember for sure if it was there or someplace else in western Nebraska, but I remember stopping on a family roadtrip and walking to a visitors center. There were about a dozen rattlers on either side of the sidewalk, easily visible and just taking in the sun.

[Five Star]

@ Graham

LOVE the Hoodoo Gurus!  Saw them in Seattle ca. 1991.

[Graham F]

‘LOVE the Hoodoo Gurus!  Saw them in Seattle ca. 1991.’

I was listening to the album Stoneage Romeos when the snake bit  at me-missed me by about 5 centimetres I reckon. I think the snake didn’t like my singing.

[Aaron]

Haven’t made it through all these posts yet.

I did see some that said you will automatically know when you hear it, but that is not the case. I was out hiking alone in Ventana wilderness last weekend and clearly heard what I assumed was a cicada. I kept walking another couple steps before stopping to look for it, since I hadn’t heard any others. Noticed the snake ~4 ft off the trail to the right.

Which of course got me wondering, what does one do if they get bitten 10 miles from the road and farther from cell service? Should I be carrying some kind of emergency transmitter?

 

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

When I was young I never walked with headphones because of rapists. Now that I’m old I’m completely invisible so I wear them.

As for what to do if you are bit by a snake, you should walk out to safety as soon as possible. The venom doesn’t circulate in your bloodstream, it circulates in your lymph system, so you have time and can hurry.

[Todd T]

…what does one do if they get bitten 10 miles from the road and farther from cell service?

I was gonna say, “die,” but Diane beat me with a serious answer.

[Tom K]

“The venom doesn’t circulate in your bloodstream, it circulates in your lymph system, so you have time and can hurry.”

I think you are mistaken, Piper.  Rattlesnake venom is primarily hemotoxic, and destroys various components in the blood, as well as surrounding tissues.

https://www.desertusa.com/reptiles/rattlesnake-bites.html

The last thing a victim should do is move, let alone hurry.  The only reason I am pointing this out is that your advice, if taken seriously, could end up getting a person killed.

https://www.wikihow.com/Treat-a-Rattlesnake-Bite

 

 

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

I thought I read somewhere just the other day that the venom circulates the lymph system. I can’t find where I read it though. I thought it was in my email but I can’t find it there.

In any case, I have a friend who was bitten by a rattlesnake when he still had several miles to go to get to civilization. He got out and got to the hospital but they did not believe him that he was bitten by a rattlesnake because he only had one fang hole. Once he finally convinced them, they gave him antivenom but they only had 1/16 of the amount that he actually needed. Apparently the local hospitals keep only a little bit on hand and assume they can send all the needed doses to whatever patient needs it at the time if they need more. He never got more. His leg turned black. The doctor said it was likely he’d never walk again. It took a long time, but he healed and I have gone hiking with him many times. He’s a good hiker. You’d never know.

[Tom K]

“I thought I read somewhere just the other day that the venom circulates the lymph system. I can’t find where I read it though. I thought it was in my email but I can’t find it there.”

Please let us know if and when you find any credible source for rattlesnake venom circulating through the lymph system.

“In any case, I have a friend who was bitten by a rattlesnake when he still had several miles to go to get to civilization. He got out and got to the hospital but they did not believe him that he was bitten by a rattlesnake because he only had one fang hole. Once he finally convinced them, they gave him antivenom but they only had 1/16 of the amount that he actually needed. Apparently the local hospitals keep only a little bit on hand and assume they can send all the needed doses to whatever patient needs it at the time if they need more. He never got more. His leg turned black. The doctor said it was likely he’d never walk again. It took a long time, but he healed and I have gone hiking with him many times. He’s a good hiker. You’d never know.”

Your friend almost certainly received a minimal dose of venom.  Had it been otherwise, given he hiked out, he would have been lucky to survive, let alone hike again.  I suggest getting out on the internet and doing some research.  The literature is extensive and overwhelmingly recommends immobilizing the victim with the affected limb kept below heart level.  I repeat, rattlesnake venom is primarily hemotoxic, and therefore circulates through the vascular system, wreaking havoc as it goes.

 

[Pedestrian]

“I repeat, rattlesnake venom is primarily hemotoxic, and therefore circulates through the vascular system”

While the vast majority of rattlesnake species are hemotoxic, some species of rattlesnake (Mojave rattlesnake for example) are known to be both neurotoxic and hemotoxic.

In any case the best course of action if bitten is to immediately transport the bitten individual to an ER. If far from a trail head, call for evacuation or send a person to call 911.
Do NOT waste time trying to “treat” the bite with a tourniquet, or “venom extractor”, icing etc. Washing with soap and clean water might be fine.

“The first steps for successful first aid of a rattlesnake bite is getting to the nearest emergency facility; removing anything that could cause constriction on the body, such as rings, watches and other items; and keeping the bitten appendage below the plane of the heart.”

Above from:

http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/11-North-American-Rattlesnakes/

That said, I routinely see rattlesnakes on trails here in the Bay Area. I’ve almost stepped on one causing the snake to rattle very impressively! I instinctively jumped four feet up in the air and then looked down and saw the snake a couple of feet from where I’d been walking. I just hadn’t noticed the snake sitting right on the trail as I was caught up in a conversation with a hiking buddy.

Here’s a picture of one I spotted in late April this year (id’d as a Northern Pacific rattlesnake):

Rattler on trail

The highest concentration of rattlers I encountered was in the Grand Canyon of the Tuolumne hiking out of Pate valley going up towards Glen Aulin. We must have seen at least a dozen rattlers as we hiked up the narrow canyon in the space of two or three miles. I have no idea how many more we passed by and missed.

[Nick Gatel]

I like these kinds of signs… they keep campgrounds somewhat empty ;-)

BTW, they taste like chicken.

Regarding the earlier link about rattlers no longer rattling due to human pressure. Several years ago I posted on BPL that the rattlesnakes along a portion of the PCT, we hike a lot, no longer rattle. In the almost 20 years Joyce and I have been married, she has seen several rattlesnakes, but she has never heard one rattle. But she doesn’t go backpacking and we mostly hike on trails. For those who have never heard one and wonder… there must be some primeval instinct… you will know for sure when you hear one.

[Kattt]

Double post because I could use some help..

I just  came home to find a foot long baby rattler in front of the front door, actually wedged under the sill.  We have a deck that is only a few inches off the ground  and my concern is that if there’s one there are 8 to 10 and is there anything to do, besides vaccinate Libby’s dog? Ugh. Any advice is welcome here.

[Author]

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