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Snake Gaiters


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Viewing 23 posts - 1 through 23 (of 23 total)
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  • #3454552
    DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST
    Spectator

    @zelph2

    I need to make a pair. I have some 1000 denier cordura nylon. do you think it will suffice or do I need to get some 2000 denier?

    #3454608
    Valerie E
    Spectator

    @wildtowner

    Locale: Grand Canyon State

    I have some kevlar ones from forestrysuppliers.com — but they don’t seem to carry them any more.  Some of the ones they have now are 1000 denier cordura.  I guess if you want them to be “bomb-proof”, you could insert some sort of “armor”, like the ones they sell.

    #3454626
    Ryan Smith
    BPL Member

    @violentgreen

    Locale: East TN

    I researched this a couple years ago and seemed 1000d was the norm with a few 840d versions. I think you’re fine with what you have.

    #3454813
    DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST
    Spectator

    @zelph2

    That’s good news. I purchased a pair of turleskins here on BPL for expediency I’ll use my 1000d for a pair of “chaps” . Thorny vines are abundant here is the piney woods of Mississippi :-)  Maybe add a liner made of .004 Ti :-)  Thank you for your help :-)

     

    edit: maybe make an apron instead of chaps, easy on, easy off ;)

    #3454853
    David Thomas
    BPL Member

    @davidinkenai

    Locale: North Woods. Far North.

    You gotta carry your Caldera Cone stove somewhere.

    Multi-Purpose your gear!

    #3454958
    DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST
    Spectator

    @zelph2

    David….The Caldera Cone will be worn as a wrist guard when pushing prickly vines out of the way :-)

    Now that’s “multi purpose”

    There is an acquaintance down here that got bitten on the butt by a black widda (widow) spider about 5 years ago. Long story short….half of his butt has been removed and also his testicles. Maybe some Titanium under garments are in order for this neck-o-the-woods :(

    #3454967
    David Thomas
    BPL Member

    @davidinkenai

    Locale: North Woods. Far North.

    “bitten on the butt by a black widow spider”

    Prior to 1900, 90% of black widow spider bites were inflicted on male genitalia (before indoor plumbing, everyone used an outhouse and that’s what projects furtherest below the seat).  Since learning that, I’ve always made a stiff wrap of toilet paper and swept around the inside bottom of the seat / seat support before using an outhouse in the 48 states (no BWS’s up here).  About 30% of the time, I’d dislodge a BWS.

    I’d bring in a guy who’d been bitten by a rattlesnake to discuss his experience with my wilderness advanced first aid classes.  He said his first thought, for 0.7 seconds, was, “What an idiot! Putting my hand there!”.  After 0.7 seconds, his only thought was the intense pain.  The point of that anecdote was the oft-given advice about not doing cut&suck if no venom was injected and first aiders wondering how you can tell if venom was injected.  His advice was “YOU’LL KNOW IF VENOM WAS INJECTED”.

    #3454969
    Justin Baker
    BPL Member

    @justin_baker

    Locale: Santa Rosa, CA

    David, are you saying that if I don’t have intense pain, then I am all good and don’t need to walk out of the wilderness to seek medical attention?

    #3454992
    David Thomas
    BPL Member

    @davidinkenai

    Locale: North Woods. Far North.

    Yes: if you don’t have intense pain, it’s just a animal bite.  Like from a dog or non-poisonous snake.  It’s a puncture wound.  Something pierced your skin and may have pushed bacteria from the skin surface into you.  So you should let it bleed, even encourage it to bleed to flush things out, just as you would with any other puncture wound.  That area will get a little warm and red as your body fights off the remaining bacteria that got introduced.  If that is all that happens and it is getting better, I’d keep hiking.  If the redness increases after the 3rd or 4th day, or if there are any signs of pus, or if there are red streaks emanating for the site, I’d get into town and seek medical attention.  And/or ask if there are physicians with appropriate antibiotics (like my wife) hiking along the trail.

    Rattlesnake venom contains compounds that immobilize and disable the prey, but also digestive enzymes which break down tissue.  They shallow their prey whole, including prey the size of rabbits.  It would take a long time to digest a rabbit from the outside in, so the venom starts that process early.  Having your tissues digested doesn’t feel good and my understanding is that is where most of the pain arises.

    #3454996
    David Thomas
    BPL Member

    @davidinkenai

    Locale: North Woods. Far North.

    And if you do feel intense pain, you’re still very unlikely to die – there are 7,000-8,000 of people bit each year in the US and only about 5 deaths per year: typically the fatalities are very young, very old, or someone who received multiple bites, say from falling into a winter brumation burrow (“rattlesnake den”), usually while rattlesnake hunting.

    But if you were envenomated, there will be local tissue damage, possibly some tissue death.  That will need to be excised afterwards and carving chunks off your body is beyond (at least my) UL first-aid capabilities.

    #3455009
    jscott
    BPL Member

    @book

    Locale: Northern California

    “Long story short….half of his butt has been removed and also his testicles”

    “About 30% of the time, I’d dislodge a BWS.”

     

    Holy !!!!&$!! This is all news to me. I once moved into a house in Santa Cruz that had about 30 black widows nested in the garage. We sadly torched them all. But I assumed there were more around. and if I got bitten, it would hurt etc. but nothing much more. Sheesh! I use portapotties all the time when I’m on backpacking trips. I’ve never seen a black widow in the Sierra or in the foothills or in the one portapottie at the gas station that I almost always use on the drive up. Tell me that black widows are allergic to the chemicals in portapotties please.

     

    Oh p.s. I can never square these two instructions if you’re bitten by a rattler: 1. stay immobilized with your foot elevated and 2. seek immediate medical attention. I can do one or the other when I’m 20 miles from a trailhead. which do I choose?

    #3455017
    Jerry Adams
    BPL Member

    @retiredjerry

    Locale: Oregon and Washington

    squat, don’t sit : )

    #3455025
    DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST
    Spectator

    @zelph2

    Oh my, I have to make a correction…..the guy was bitten by a “brown recluse” not a black widow. I’ll be talking to the guy in the next few days and will see if I can get a little more details from him about “pain”

     

    Brown recluse spiders are usually between 6 and 20 millimetres (0.24 and 0.79 in), but may grow larger. While typically light to medium brown, they range in color from whitish to dark brown or blackish gray. The cephalothorax and abdomen are not necessarily the same color. These spiders usually have markings on the dorsal side of their cephalothorax, with a black line coming from it that looks like a violin with the neck of the violin pointing to the rear of the spider, resulting in the nicknames <b>fiddleback spider</b>, <b>brown fiddler</b>, or <b>violin spider</b>.

    #3455028
    jscott
    BPL Member

    @book

    Locale: Northern California

    Something tells me I won’t care about their taxonomy if one bites me. Just tell me where they live so I can never go there.

    #3455061
    Justin Baker
    BPL Member

    @justin_baker

    Locale: Santa Rosa, CA

    David, if I experience no intense pain, then the only risk is infection. That’s good to know!

    “And if you do feel intense pain, you’re still very unlikely to die”

    Do you know what the chances are of dying/surviving from a venom bite if you can’t or don’t receive medical attention?

    #3455070
    David Thomas
    BPL Member

    @davidinkenai

    Locale: North Woods. Far North.

    Overall, survival is 99.9% (average year = 7495/7500).  So those who don’t receive antivenin to treat the  local and systemic effects are going to have worse odds.  But unless you got multiple bites or were already in poor health, your survival rate is practically 100% either way, but I’d still be concerned about the local effects that would be minimized with timely treatment.  Better to have a teaspoon of your tissue excised than a tablespoon.  Better a tablespoon than a lime-sized hunk.  Especially since one rarely gets bit on the meat of the thigh or the belly but rather on the hands or ankles where there is a lot of important stuff.

    But remember: 5 deaths a year!  Not just among hikers, but among EVERYONE herding cattle, playing golf, and stacking firewood.  Worry instead about hypothermia, heat stroke, fasten your seat belt, and don’t text and drive!

    #3455088
    DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST
    Spectator

    @zelph2

    And don’t eat and drive. Just received word from my daughter that she was in an accident caused by her eating a sandwich while driving home from work. She was on a paved country road, lost control of her car, went off the road, crashed thru a barbed wire fence and smashed into a large bush of sorts that brought the car to a halt. She was slightly hurt, air bags did not deploy.

    #3455213
    Ben H.
    BPL Member

    @bzhayes

    Locale: No. Alabama

    Jeffrey: Good news… no Brown Recluses in CA!  Also, your question about staying and elevating vs. hiking out was discussed in a thread once.  As I recall, some medically trained people weighed in and the overwhelming conclusion was to hike out.  Maybe I’ll see if I can dig up that thread.

    The point of that anecdote was the oft-given advice about not doing cut&suck if no venom was injected… David T.

    David: Was this class some time ago?  My understanding is cut & suck is never recommended anymore.  Sucking doesn’t do any good and cutting does a lot of harm.

     

    #3456077
    Nick Smolinske
    BPL Member

    @smo

    Locale: Rogue Panda Designs

    “Oh p.s. I can never square these two instructions if you’re bitten by a rattler: 1. stay immobilized with your foot elevated and 2. seek immediate medical attention. I can do one or the other when I’m 20 miles from a trailhead. which do I choose?”

    I can answer this one! My mom is a toxicologist and runs the New Mexico Poison Control Center, so I asked her this when I had the same thought. She said #2 – hike out. The only reason to do #1 is if you’re in a spot where an ambulance can get to you, otherwise you’re better off reducing the amount of time the venom has to work on you rather than trying to limit your heart rate. The longer it has, the more likely you are to lose the affected limb.

    I suppose that since I carry a Delorme now, the answer would come back to #1 for a lot of circumstances. Might as well take a helicopter if it’s available.

    #3456080
    Jerry Adams
    BPL Member

    @retiredjerry

    Locale: Oregon and Washington

    How long before it’s too late for medical care?

    If it takes a day to hike out and get to medical care can they still do anything?  What about 2 or 3 days?

    #3456086
    Nick Smolinske
    BPL Member

    @smo

    Locale: Rogue Panda Designs

    “How long before it’s too late for medical care?

    If it takes a day to hike out and get to medical care can they still do anything?  What about 2 or 3 days?”

    When I asked I had mentioned being 3-4 days out and she said hike out. I’m not sure there’s a limit, because loss of the end of a limb could turn into loss of the whole limb or maybe death if it goes on too long.

    That said, if you’re smart around snakes you *probably* won’t be bit in the hand, but rather the leg. Which means mobility will probably be compromised badly due to swelling and pain, so if you have a long way to go hiking out might be tough.

    I think in that case the best course of action depends on whether you’re solo. If you’re in a group, it probably makes sense to find a good helicopter landing zone and wait there while others hike out for help. They will move faster than you so you’ll get medical care faster.

    If you’re solo, that’s tough. Probably take the best route out that maximizes your chance of encountering another hiker. Or carry a PLB.

    #3456756
    John S.
    BPL Member

    @jshann

    “There is nothing that can be done in the field to significantly alter the outcome of a serious snakebite, and field first aid should not delay rapid transfer to a facility capable of safely administering antivenom. The degree of envenomation cannot be quickly determined with confidence; therefore, any bite by a venomous species must be considered a medical emergency and evaluated by a physician without delay. While en route or waiting for evacuation, first aid and wound care can be administered.”

    “If evacuation is difficult or prolonged, the absence of local or systemic symptoms 8 hours after the bite may indicate a dry bite.”

    #3456766
    David Thomas
    BPL Member

    @davidinkenai

    Locale: North Woods. Far North.

    “David: Was this class some time ago?”

    Yeah, it was back in the era of cut&suck going in and out of style every few years.  Very little venom is removed, even with the little rubber suction cups or one of the piston vacuum units.  And cutting always causes some harm, perhaps significant harm.

    For those of us far from the trailhead, while the delay in getting anti-venom might suggest an advantage to cut&suck, it also means any injuries from cutting and any bacteria introduced if one was to suction by mouth would become more infected before reaching treatment.

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