Smartwater bottle parka

I have a couple of the OR bottle parkas. I use them as add-on hip belt pockets, but I prefer their no-longer-made uninsulated pockets (which are lighter and easier to use than the zippers on the insulated parkas which mostly require two hands). I seem to be constantly seeking larger add-on pockets (and not being satisfied with any I have found so far).

The insulated pockets don’t have much insulation — they don’t compare to two-layer thermos-style bottles, or stuffing the bottle in a jacket pocket, or wrapping a bottle in a sleeping bag inside the pack. I keep mittens and gloves in mine.

I never actually considered carrying bottles in them: Nalgene or otherwise.

Also, I would never consider paying anywhere near the full list price for these things. They are well made, but come on.

EDIT: The reason that the OR parkas are sized for Nalgenes is so that you can fill them with hot water (and so that they are easier to open if the threads freeze). Hot Nalgenes double as sleeping-bag warmers, so the heavier bottles have a dual purpose in cold weather. Maybe.

I carry my water bottle inside my pack where it stays cooler

I never go where it would freeze over the day.

I frequently go where it freezes over night.  Then, I need something to insulate my 1 gallon water bag.  I just put it on the ground with insulation over it.  Sometimes I’ll add fir boughs.

@bill, off topic, but curious what an ideal hip pocket would look like for you?

I have hydro flasks which will not freeze room temp water in zero degree f weather for over 24 hours, but they weigh really a lot.

I’m wondering if anyone would want to take smart water bottles for a short back country ski mountaineering trip for example.

@jerry I do the same, but it makes getting my water a pack off affair which I don’t love. I do lots of 5 hours or less ski mountaineering trips where having a bottle handy but freeze resistant could be ideal. But I wouldn’t mind saving some oz.

Thermos-style weight: I suppose it depends on how important it is to carry liquid water outside your pack. I’ve been OK with keeping a bottle inside my jacket but, if you need to carry it outside, then nothing beats a Dewar flask.

Pack: Another option would be to wrap your sleeping bag around a bladder or bottle in your pack, and use a hydration hose system to sip from it. I’ve done that successfully in freezing weather by blowing out the tube after each use. That way there is no water in the tube to freeze.

Pockets: I don’t mind carrying camping gear in my pack, but some stuff I want to be able to access without stopping. Ideally, rain gear, hat, gloves, mittens, maybe a wind bib/apron/serape thingamajig (like a windshirt, but goes on/off over the pack). Bulky stuff that doesn’t weigh much. I currently have a ten liter “backpack” rigged as a large shoulder strap pocket. It’s imperfect, but about the right size.

I’ve considered something like Aarn Universal Balance Pockets, but only need one (and I have never seen them in stock).

Something like 5-10 liter pockets with straps long enough to go around a wide hip belt would be great. Ideal pockets would attach around the wide part of a hip belt — similar to the OR pockets but with even longer straps. A wide pocket might need two of those straps.

EDIT: A 10 liter shoulder strap pocket would be another alternative. Maybe like a single Aarn pocket.

Forty Below makes a neoprene bottle boot that will fit smart water bottle.

@dirtbag

Like this one?

I’ve used this type of sleeve before and it’s not very effective. Mostly I think it keeps the bottle from “sweating” and gives you something to clip to. Better than nothing for sure.

To be fair the outdoor research one is not extremely effective. Perhaps that’s honestly my answer? To make one that really works would be self defeating at some point?

…not extremely effective. Perhaps that’s honestly my answer? To make one that really works would be self defeating at some point?

That’s my take on it. Dewar flasks work. A centimeter or two of foam? Not so much.

I’m pretty sure that a two-layer bottle could be made that would be much lighter than most thermos-style bottles. I have a dual-walled cup that keeps coffee too hot for too long. It might be aluminum, and isn’t overly heavy. A leak-proof bottle made the same way might be popular for backpackers.

I’ve made some of foam , insulated bubble wrap

thom

Any passive insulation system will only work for a limited time.   The best passive method I’ve found is to pull a very heavy fleece sock over the bottle and then wrap it in a very heavy fleece top inside my pack, which I pull on at stops anyway.  That works only for a couple hours at 10F-15F for example.

I’ve tried wrapping the bottle with a Hot Hands (over an insulating buffer layer like a sock to keep the plastic from getting too hot) then placing that inside my pack.  It works reasonably well but its fiddly, especially with mitts on.  This year I’m trying a two sock system: bottle->buffer sock->hot hands->outer sock.  I think this will work out pretty well.

A common option is to store a soft sided bottle like a Platypus under your outer layer and close to your skin.  The main issue I find is that it limits the amount of water you can carry and can impact mobility if covering technical terrain

Nalgene makes a insulation holder for their 1 quart bottles.

@thom any pictures? did they work well?

@david I get the dual purpose argument, this makes sense to me.

@paul this one?

It weighs 4.8 oz OR and HMG are 4.3 and requires the use of their bottles which are also pretty heavy, compaired to the smart water bottles. The lightest Nalgene (the original, but what they now call the ultralight) is 3.75 oz. This means the system weight at it’s best is just over 8 OZ

for 12 oz (just one oz more than a Lexan nalgene and a nalgene parka) you could get this beauty :) and in my experience it will never freeze on you (unless you’re carrying it for multiple days rather than drinking it)

A smart water bottle is 1.2 oz, it seems to me one could be insulated for something close to these other products, making a system weight around 6oz. That’s 2oz savings per liter, assuming these designs are optimized for weight (which they super aren’t, they have big zippers etc.) Id guess you could build a parka around 3 oz for similar performance.

Seems like I just might be the only person who wants such a thing :) maybe that’s why I can’t find any out there.

Ok, but you still can’t put boiling water in a Smart Water bottle as you can with a Nalgene.

AFAIK, that is the main reason for using a Nalgene. OR and HMG just support the most common winter bottle.

There are YouTube videos about how to make your own Dewar flask. You should be able to make one that is much lighter than commercial thermoses.

On further inspection, it might not be so easy to make a UL MYOG Dewar flask. The trick is keeping a reliable vacuum seal, which requires a certain amount of strong materials.

I see that Hydro Flask once made a titanium bottle, but it weighed 8 grams more than their current 32 oz Wide-Mouth Travel Bottle listed at 7.5 oz.

That is lighter than the combination of an ultralight Nalgene and an insulated pocket for it (and probably many times more effective). It might be good for multiple day trips.

However, David D’s Hot Hands trick is lighter for a single day.

It’s 3/8 foam and duct tape . Made them out of the bubble wrap or cheep blue foam sleep mat.
Thom

@bill I think that spec is wrong. The Hydroflask trail series is their lightest bottle, which they claim is 25% lighter than any of their other 32 oz bottles, and it is listed as .76 pounds (12 oz)

No way is that thing 7.5 oz. I’d bet it is .75 lbs and REI misrepresented it as 7.5 oz because that’s a weird way to describe the weight of something (LOL)

@thom, did that work pretty well for you? or not much insulation achieved that way?

As good as a store bought one.

@thom I wonder if I could have a beer koozie made to fit on the smart water bottle and be about half the length, so you put one on the top and one on the bottom, they’d meet in the middle. I’d bet that would be light, cheap, and pretty effective. kinda the same as your tape and sleeping pad version.

Brian I’ve done that for day hikes in the winter and it will buy you a little time  although in my experience the heavy weight wool or fleece sock works a bit better and it’s multi use .

I’ve also done the same as Thom with insulating an old school wide mouth  Nalgene or one of those similar mountaineering bottles that have the square cap for easier opening with thick gloves. If you are going to be out longer these wider bottles are a better choice because they will take longer to freeze up and you can poor hot water in them. But either way I always make sure too store my bottles upside down in the winter because water will freeze from the top down and a smart water bottle exposed to the elements stored right side up will freeze up in no time at all , actually even my cnoc bottles seem to last a bit longer than the Smart water unprotected.

One additional little trick to get a bit more time is to store the bottle upside down so when it begins to freeze (vertically highest point), water still flows

Brian: Expanding on your idea of insulating a Smart Water bottle combined with the thought of making a lightweight Dewar flask, I saw an interesting concept for making a two-layer bottle. Instead of vacuum between the layers (heavy), use canned expanding foam to separate two layers:

• Use two bottles of slightly different diameter.
• Cut the top, tapered, part off of the larger bottle so that the smaller bottle fits inside.
• Hot glue a bottle cap to the bottom of the inner bottle, to act as a spacer.
• Nest the two bottles.
• Blow in canned expanding foam insulation. Allow to harden. Trim excess foam.
• Wrap in foil tape or Reflectix to slow IR radiation.

Since vacuum has much higher R-per-thickness than other insulations, this probably won’t rival a Dewar in performance. However, it might be better than a cozy because the foam fully surrounds the inner bottle, plus there is the IR layer.

Here’s the video inspiration. You will want to use a much lighter inner bottle, of course.

Good idea.  Justin would like it :)

Rather than a bottle cap, just spray a bit of expanding foam on bottom and wait for it to cure.

In that video, that appeared to be duct tape.  That is not IR reflective.  Yeah, foil tape or reflectix would work.  Or space blanket or aluminum foil.

Rather than a plastic bottle you could use a tube of aluminum sheet – that would reflect IR by itself.

Or just make a sleeve with reflectix.

I have this chotske sleeve from camping world.  It is open called foam.  I’ll get it wet and then it will cool off from evaporative cooling

Start of last winter I made double wall reflectix insulators for my Nalgenes, like here

Single walled version test results: “Tested with 1L HDPE Nalgenes (insulated and control) initially filled with 165°F water, placed in a -5°F chest freezer cap down. At 3 hours, the insulated bottle was 97.9°F and the control was 46.5°F. At 6 hours the insulated bottle was 54.8°F and the control was mostly frozen.”

Double walled is notably better.  In practice my water never came close to freezing on numerous 8 hours excursions @ ~ -15C

Single walled is 0.6oz, double walled 1.4 oz, compared to ~ 4oz for $100C solutions like this https://geartrade.ca/products/hyperlite-mountain-gear-the-insulator