Sleeping Pad Use on Winter Backpacking Trips

Foam pad on top. The air pads are susceptible to convection.

I use a foam pad on the bottom and insulated air mattress on top, because…

Well that’s how I’ve always done it.

But when I started doing this there were no Internet forums to tell me the correct way. Since my foam pads are usually a little larger than the air mattress and want to curl up, it just seems easier to keep every assembled, science aside.

Since I am warm enough this way, I see no reason to change, even though the “experts” say otherwise.

I share Nick’s thoughts

I hope I’m not as much of a curmudgeon as Nick : )

The material with the “highest R value per inch” aught to be located closest to your body. In other words, CCF pads have a much higher “R per inch”, so for maximum efficiency, this is where they would belong. However, many folks prefer the opposite, due to comfort and/or durability concerns.

(Personally, I like my ccf on top, not because of thermal efficiency, but because it adds some much needed firmness over my Neo-Rest. I’ve slept with the Neo-Rest a few times on it’s own, and my back absolutely hates it.)

Since the inflatable is softer, I’d put it on top for comfort unless I was still cold, then I’d reverse per everyone’s logic (ccf on top).

In the recent mountaineering movie “Mura” I was delighted to see a green ridge rest tied to their backpacks in the Himalayas. I don’t know if they had an inflatable as well, but obviously you can get quite a bit of “range” out of ccf pads.

Try and see what works.

Nick and I are both experienced backpackers.

I, however, put my foam pad on top as that is what works for me. I use a short NeoAir on the bottom with my pack at the foot end of the NeoAir.  As with Matt,  I also do not find the NeoAir that comfortable..but it works well for winter insulation underneath the foam.

My method is not necessarily the “right” way. But it is the right way for me.

I suspect Nick and I found out what is the right way for us by the novel concept of going out and trying it. :)

With some quilts and bags there is a pad attachment system which works best on inflatables …. In that case it should be on top

sometimes you can get the shorter inflatables inside the quilt or with larger winter bags/quilts the sides also hang around the inflatable sides … Insulating the inflatable somewhat more

as to CCF in the mountains … All it takes is a single mistake with yr pick or crampon, or a sharp rock in yr inflatable for you to be sleeping on yr rope

CCF are the most flexible of all pads and thr most durable …. And if yr wearing big enuff pooofays not too uncomfortable

;)

One other thing to consider is blood flow. I find that if I sleep on a ccf pad, even on top of an air mattress, my arm falls asleep during the night and I sleep colder because my blood flow is restricted against the hard pad. Besides, I’d rather protect my air mattress with the foam pad.

Mags said,

I suspect Nick and I found out what is the right way for us by the novel concept of going out and trying it. :)

That’s the bottom line. You can take suggestions, but be open to experiment. There is no right way. Another difference between Paul and I are our choice of inflatable mats. On most 3 season trips, if I use an air mattress, it is a short. But in winter I want a regular length so my legs are completely on the mat. I am warmer and generally do am colder than most people who backpack in cold weather. Paul grew up in the Northeast and now lives in Colorado. He is used to cold. I am not.

At the first approximation, the order of placement does not matter as the R-values are additive.

Both CCF and air mats are not-porous, so there should not be much difference for skin contact, although I would always recommend a liner of some sort.

Putting the CCF on the bottom has the advantage of protecting the air mat against damage from below – sticks and spikes and sharps – but you need to clear them away to protect your groundsheet anyhow. I will assume you are sufficiently careful that you don’t use your mat as a cutting board …

In winter you are likely to get some moisture on your groundsheet simply by condensation from inside your tent. This is unavoidable. Is it better that this moisture should be in contact with CCF or air mat? Dunno.

Both arrangements work.

My 2c
Cheers

I have always put the CCF pad under the air mattress – I’ve been winter mountaineering in Alaska for 35 years and climbed Denali a few times and every person I’ve camped/climbed with put the CCF under the air mattress (usually a Therm-a-rest.)  Never really thought about it and never questioned it.

Roger said,

At the first approximation, the order of placement does not matter as the R-values are additive.

One thing when I started doing this, I thought that having the cold snow against the air mat might cause the air in it to condense faster, whereas a foam pad might help slow it down or even prevent much of it. At least that was my mindset.  So I was happy how things worked out for me and saw no need to change.

When I started reading in the past few years that it was better to put the foam on top, I thought, this doesn’t sound right. But I didn’t even try. I was happy with my system. Changing my method wasn’t going to lighten my pack weight and the possible improvement wasn’t going to allow me to take less insulation, so I saw no reason to change.

Sometimes we just need to look at things and say to ourselves, “Does this make sense?” 

Also, when backpacking I often look at things from the standpoint of is this the most efficient or productive way to use my gear. For example, we are told that short wide pots are better than tall ones (Caldera Cones excepted). That might be true in many cases, but often short wide pots make packing and organizing gear less efficient. Whenever possible I use a pot that can hold my stove and fuel, with little or no extra space left inside. That may not be the most effective stove pot combination, but often it makes it easier to operate in the field day after day. Again, as Paul pointed out, each of us has to experiment and figure out what works best for us.

So if anyone is on the fence about sleeping pads, experiment. When you figure out what method works for you, stick to it.

So if anyone is on the fence about sleeping pads, experiment. When you figure out what method works for you, stick to it.

Last winter (as opposed to our current non-winter) offered many opportunities to tweak my sleep pad setup and I was able to try a few different pads and configurations. These were actual field tests, camping on snow at my local venue, Harriman State Park.

A few times I was able — on the same night, in single-digit (°F) temperatures — to sleep with the CCF on bottom and on top of the air mat (Neoair Trekker torso/wide format, pack under legs/feet), and found that every time it was distinctly warmer with the CCF on top.

I tested 3 CCFs: a GG thinlight (1/8″ thick, if you want to call that thick), some 1/4″ CCF I got from Lawson and a TR SoLite. The GG wasn’t warm enough, the SoLite was very warm but also pretty bulky and heavy, so Goldilocks decided it with the 1/4″ stuff I got from Lawson — it weighs ~7.5 oz and gets the job done for me down to a little below 0°F.

Definitely, YMMV.