Six Moon Designs Gear News

I saw that, very interesting. I understand silnylon and cuben/dyneema, but what are the properties of SilPoly in contrast?

I’ve been meaning to get some silpoly to try out, but from what I understand it’s less stretchy than silnylon, has better UV resistance, but is also less tear resistant.  Water resistance would still depend greatly on the quality of the coating.

It is my understanding from reading these forums that it has less sag when wet.  I thought that was one of its primary benefits.

That pack seems like the opposite of minimalist to me. Just an observation.

It will be interesting to see what the fabric actually is and what its specs are. The SMD Lunar Solo is a very light solo shelter option that does not seem to get a lot of attention these days.

I am more looking forward to their new pack, despite its silly name :) It looks to combine a lot of nice features that I look for in a week-long pack, although I never understood the benefit of a tall side pocket. My old SMD Swift had one and I didn’t use it for anything special.

Other than abrasion resistance I wonder how Silpoly holds up compared to Silnylon? It will be interesting to see what pricing looks like, could be the go to budget shelter.

I’ve been using a silpoly tarp for over 500 nights with no issues

SMD seems to swing and miss with most of its packs. Aside from the weight this pack is kind of ugly. If they had released something in the Ohm v1 weight class I would have been interested.

Also they need to make the Deschutes in cuben again.

Good thing they emblazoned MINIMALIST across the back of the pack.  I don’t think I would ever be able to recognize the pack without some massive pack name printed or stitched on it.

What was the name of their last pack?….   FUSION oh yeah, how could I forget.  It was stitched into the pack 6″ long.

Perhaps SMD needs to rethink the term minimalism before they put this on the market….

My brother has the first gen fusion and it carries better than my 10 year old circuit when hitting higher weights.  Not sure why it was panned or isn’t on more people’s list.

I too can attest to how well the first generation Fusion 50 performs. And having FUSION emblazoned on the pack doesn’t effect the way it carries one little bit.

At 34 oz the Minimalist isn’t all so heavy for a 48 liter framed pack. That’s 6 oz less than the 1st gen Fusion 50. I’ll admit Ron got too heavy on the 2nd gen Fusions, but perhaps the lack of sales made him realize that he needed to design something lighter..

Ron is one of the  “daddies” of cottage ultralight, along with MLD and ZPacks, but, when you consider price and function, I rate SMD number one. Sure, SMD gear is now made in China , however, anyone who thinks that always means lower quality is living in the past. Another good thing about Ron is you can get him on the phone to talk about your choices. The other cottage makers will only e-mail you,.

I also rate the Lunar Solo as the best 1P ultralight shelter on the market. It is large with a high entrance and pitches drum tight at 24 oz.

Ron doesn’t post on BPL anymore and think it’s because of the petty snark and gear snobbishness that’s commonplace on this site now.

I have had a second generation Fusion 65 since they came out and love it.  Really carries the weight well.  Yes, it is 50 ounces vs the 30 ounces I could get from a similar sized SWD or Zpacks pack, but there are times that I need to carry a little more weight and those other packs really start to get uncomfortable fast when you get over 30 pounds.  If you are one of those people that never needs to carry more than say 25-30 pounds, then great, go with a Zpacks or SWD.  If you sometimes need to carry a little more than that, then the SMD Fusion line is a great choice in my opinion.

The other cottage makers will only e-mail you

Not all…

But to be fair to the ones that do, it probably is because they are actually making gear during the day so they don’t really get the time to chat.

“The other cottage makers will only e-mail you”

I’ve talked to Henry Shires (more than once), Ron Bell, Tom when he ran Nunatak (more than once), Joe Valesko, and one of the owners of HMG (don’t remember which one). All were helpful and never rushed me off the phone.

Not that I am bitter, but Ron did not respond to my tweet, email, or Facebook post last year asking whether they’d be making any more cuben Deschutes.

Okay, sorry, perhaps saying you can’t get other cottage makers on the phone was too much of a blanket statement. I can admit when I’m wrong.

But I stand by the statement about the snarkiness here at BPL, and I’m as guilty as anyone.

“But I stand by the statement about the snarkiness here at BPL, and I’m as guilty as anyone.”

No argument here, you are as guilty as anyone….

KIDDING!

I agree Monte, this place has drifted toward more and more snark in the forums, and it’s a bit sad.

In my mind, SMD is the scrappy fighter of the cottage industry that seems to have been relegated to the shadows of zpacks, MLD, HMG, etc, but Ron never seems to give up. He dumps under performing products and flops and keeps churning out new stuff.  But I do feel bad for them that they’ve never found a way to capitalize on the constant demand for their cuben products (both existing models like the X, Haven, and Deschutes that are always out of stock and the unicorn cuben gatewood they never found a way to produce)

SMD “seems to have been relegated to the shadows of ZPacks, MLD HMG, etc”

I’m not so sure about that. Maybe in the ultralight fringe world that people like us dwell in, but when you look at the mass market, I’d be willing to bet SMD’s bottom line is larger than the cottage companies you mentioned. Ron also distributes to Backcountrygear, hikelight.com, Antigravitygear…..and more importantly he’s getting major traction in Europe on sites like ultralightoutdoorgear.com in the UK.

And remember that Ron gets his stuff made in China at much lower labor costs and with assembly line production, thereby being more efficient in the manufacturing process.

“dumps underperforming products”

Such as? I respect your opinion, so maybe you can enlighten me.

Ron probably sold so many tents to the BSA that he retired a millionaire.

Monte, their line of packs has changed quite a bit over the years.  Packs on sale is my clue that they’re not selling as expected (underperforming sales).

For context, I own 3 SMD shelters and remember the first time I used one of his tarps way back in 2003, waking up outside of Prescott to 4 ” of snow was my first tarping/UL experience. I was hooked.

I’m a fan of Ron and remember fondly his blog response to the UL stagnation controversy.

In my mind, SMD is the scrappy fighter of the cottage industry that seems to have been relegated to the shadows of zpacks, MLD, HMG, etc, but Ron never seems to give up. He dumps under performing products and flops and keeps churning out new stuff.  But I do feel bad for them that they’ve never found a way to capitalize on the constant demand for their cuben products (both existing models like the X, Haven, and Deschutes that are always out of stock and the unicorn cuben gatewood they never found a way to produce)

All these companies have gone beyond cottage status.

HMG, like Six Moons, is selling product through a distribution network. You can buy HMG products from Backcountry.com and probably others. So you will see HMG products are more expensive than comparable zPacks items, because HMG (and Six Moons) need to sell at a lower price to retailers, so retails can add about 67% to their cost to realize a 40% gross profit margin (typical retail margins). Plus, when you sell to retailers you can’t undercut them if you also sell directly to the public — you need to establish a MSRP for the retailers and then sell to the public at the same price. Herein is one of the reasons Six Moons has abandoned Cuben. The cost of Cuben doesn’t fit their retail strategy, plus there are other issues since DSM purchased Cuben Tech.

I’ve owned and currently use products from zPacks, Six Moons, and MLD. They all make quality products and there are differentials between similar offerings. None of them make a product that is universally going to fit the needs of everyone. I’m sure Ron at Six Moons has targeted his new pack for a certain segment and it will probably sell well, but it won’t be a pack for everyone. My go-to shelter for almost 3 years has been a Deschutes CF. I bought it based on my experience with a Wild Oasis I bought in 2008. But there is nothing in Six Moons’ pack line-up that suits my needs… and I can’t comment on the new pack because I haven’t seen it in person, and more importantly, I haven’t used it.