Sierra Snow Gear Qs

[Matthew / BPL]

I am headed into the Sierra to hikes the North Lake / South Lake Loop on July 10 with my son. This will be our first trip involving much snow and I have some gear questions.

1. Sunscreen. We both hike in long pants, long sleeve woven shirts (polyester buttondowns), Sunday Afternoons birth control hats, sungloves (Glacier Gloves) and buffs. We both prefer fabric over sunscreen but I’m guessing some sunscreen on our noses and lower face if we aren’t wearing the buffs religiously would be a good idea. What’s a good non-icky sunscreen that works? (I literally can’t remember the last time I’ve worn sunscreen, more than ten years)
2. Rainmitts/shell gloves. In addition to our sungloves we both carry knit merino gloves and we have a couple pairs of stretchy vinyl gloves in our FAKs which could be used as a vapor barrier in cold/wet. Is that enough or should we carry some rain mitts? We have Yama Pogies which might be handy during a break/lunch/camp in mosquito hell as well as protection from rain. Bring mitts/pogies? I’m leaning towards no mitts/pogies.
3. Gaiters. We both hike in Brooks Cascadias and have Hillsound Trail Crampons. I wear Dirty Girl Gaiters religiously because I hate having rocks and dirt in my shoes. The kid doesn’t get rocks in his shoes. Two questions: Is there any compelling reason for me to wear something more than my Dirty Girls given the fact that I’m wearing meshy trail runners? Is there any reason the kid should wear Dirty Girls too or can he go without?
4. Socks. We both like Darn Tough merino socks. We typically hike with two pairs of hiking socks (rotating and rinsing at least once a day) and we will carry a third pair of dry socks for at night. We might carry bread bags to keep those socks dry around camp. I have some Bonnie’s Balm and we plan to use that to treat our feet at night, Skurka-style. Is two pairs of hiking socks plus one dry pair of sleeping socks enough?
5. Trekking like baskets. I’ve talked to a couple people off-board and on HST about baskets. The consensus is that we are dealing with consolidated snow and that no baskets or the small “trekking baskets”  that come on our BD poles are enough. I watched the PCT snow/water webinar last night and Ned Tibbits advocated strongly for full snow baskets on trekking poles. Would y’all bring those? We lash two poles together for our Duomid XL and I think I’d have to remove the snow baskets each night which seems like a pain.

Thanks in advance for any responses. :)

[W I S N E R !]

For nose and cheeks, I like the Shisedo Foundation Stick a lot.  Expensive, but it’s lasted me a LONG time.  I know it may seem silly at first, but I initially got it for surfing and its popular in that community.  It’s a zinc oxide block and stays put pretty well.  And it’s not bright white but skin tone.  But I think anything will work.  I just prefer blocks over chemicals on nose and face, they seem to last longer.  Another to look at is Zinca.

I think your gloves are fine.  I rarely use anything beyond sun gloves up there in this season.

shoes/gaiters/footwear are similar to what I’d wear right now.

I would expect snow to be consolidated too and wouldn’t expect to be postholing.  It should be well into the freeze/melt cycle by now and be pretty firm.  Thus I wouldn’t worry about serious gaiters either.

Fergawd’s sake, the wacky autoformatting on this site….

[Ralph Burgess]

(I guess the formatting is messed up for the rest of this thread and I don’t know how to fix it….)

Sun is a much greater concern because it reflects off the snow into your face.  You really need to put sunscreen on your whole face, and put it on twice a day.   It’s far more important to put it on frequently than to worry about whether it’s SP50 or SPF 20.   For the same reason, snug fitting wraparound sunglasses are best, and loss or breakage of sunglasses can be a disaster on snow.  Personally I’d always take a spare pair of regular sunglasses since they don’t weigh much, but at the very least take the rollups as backup for negligible weight:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004NFVFUM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title

Even hard consolidated snow can soften by the afternoon.   If you do encounter postholing conditions you will seriously regret not taking full snow baskets with you for a weight penalty of….   just checked mine, 1.2oz for a pair.

I’ve never tried Dirty Girl gaiters in snow, but my MLD calf-length gaiters weigh only 2.7oz the pair.   Obviously there’s an expense issue (and the wait if you order them), but solely from a weight perspective I think it would be foolish to forego these, especially if you’re using trail runners.   Snow constantly getting in the tops of your shoes doesn’t just make your socks wet, it makes your feet cold, it’s annoying and uncomfortable.

[Michael Schlesselmann]

Following this thread!

[Matthew / BPL]

I got in there and edited the formatting. That was weird.

Thanks for the recommendations. How does sunblock like Zinka wash off? Do you just use a drop of Dr. Bronners and some water away from a creek? Maybe you wipe your face on a rock? TP? It seems like you’d want to get it off your face before bedding down for the night.

[Matthew / BPL]

NEW QUESTION

The kid likes his Prolite +  GG 1/8” pad setup. I’m thinking that by July 10 we won’t be sleeping on the snow and he should be fine. Agreed? Tibbits said snow like should be 11k’ish by then.

Alternately I could encourage him to take my extra NeoAir. He uses a JRB Sierra Sniveler + EE hood, if it matters.

[Ralph Burgess]

I don’t know enough about the snow conditions to know if you will be sleeping on snow, but if you are – I think a foam bottom pad is prudent in combo with any inflatable pad, even if it’s just 1/8″, so that you’re not directly on snow if you deflate at 3 a.m.

[Bruce Tolley]

@ matthew: Did this area get hit by the late spring storms and snow fall?  On the sunny slopes, I would think you should be able to find places to camp on ground with no snow.  That being said, an extra thinlite might give you a margin of error.  If you have to camp on snow, my personal experience is (and I think basic physics shows) that no amount of insulation above you can mitigate the heat you lose by conduction right through the pad and into the snow covered ground.

On the poles, I agree 100% with the comment: “Even hard consolidated snow can soften by the afternoon.   If you do encounter postholing conditions you will seriously regret not taking full snow baskets with you for a weight penalty of….   just checked mine, 1.2oz for a pair.”  For a May 30 hike a few years ago into the Snow Mtn Wildnerness in N California, my basketless poles were useless when I started postholing. I remove my snow baskets all the time while winter snow camping to use my pole as a snow probe (for snow caves) and to erect my MLD duomid.  Just practice at home otherwise you risk that your first time removing the baskets is in the dark while it is raining. :-))

+1 also to longer gaiters esp if your pants are part of your sleep system.

Also if the nighttime temperatures are not dropping well below freezing, there is non zero risk of mosquitoes.

[Matthew / BPL]

I don’t understand why it would make sense to wear long gaiters with meshy trailrunners in sloppy, melting snow with frequent creek crossings. Am I missing something?

My pants are not part of my sleep system.

[Bruce Tolley]

Matthew,

I was thinking of the context of snow travel, not crossing streams. With the right sock system, you could probably keep your feet warm for the hiking on top of or in snow.  If the snow is deep, then longer gaiters help keep your ankle and lower legs warm and keep the snow out of your shoes and your lower pant legs drier.

Sounds like a great father&son trip. Write up a trip report.

[David Thomas]

“>I don’t understand why it would make sense to wear long gaiters with meshy trailrunners in sloppy, melting snow with frequent creek crossings. Am I missing something?”

Have at least dirty-girl gaiters for the trail runners.  You’re not keeping out the pebbles (well, you are, in the snow-free areas) – you’re keeping out bulk amounts of snow.  If you posthole even 3-4 inches in, you’ll be scrapping snow off the snow banks and down into your trail runners with every step.  Yes, it eventually melts, but it’s cold, bulky, and annoying in the meantime.

Tall gaiters – to below your knee, can be handy with shorts.  If you’re post-holing in 8-15 inches with each step, you want some shin coverage (snow is abrasive) when it might be too hot for long pants.  I’m not sure I’d go that route, but I’ve seen it done a lot.  A lighter option would be 100% lightweight nylon pants that you’d probably have along anyway as a bug / sun layer and use those to protect your lower legs from the snow.

 

[Bruce Tolley]

@ David. I was thinking of the MLD Superlights not mountaineering- style , knee high gaiters. I think the real question is how much snow will be encountered on the trip and how deep it will be. Early in the morning you can often walk on top of the snow consolidated or not. Later, especially in the afternoon no matter how consolidated the snow might be, you sink into it if not post hole.

[jscott]

Those MLD gaiters are the cat’s meow.

[Matthew / BPL]

Thanks for the responses. I understand everyone’s thinking better now. I think I’ll stick with my DG gaiters and make the kid at least bring his.

I’ll be wearing my super-dorky RR Eco-Mesh pants and he hikes in some MH nylon pants. We won’t bring shorts because of sun and mosquitos.

[Ross Bleakney]

Socks don’t weigh that much. While I love wool socks, synthetic socks dry faster. I would bring an extra pair (more than you usually bring), just in case.

[Matthew / BPL]

Good point. Happy feet are important.

[Bob Shuff]

“my super-dorky RR Eco-Mesh pants”. Those are my hiking pants of choose too!

I went hiking as high as I could get near San Diego on Sunday and in the LA mountains last week. It’s too hot here now. The snow sounds great. I guess the grass is always greener – so to speak.

[Matthew / BPL]

Yeah. It’s officially miserable here in Phoenix now. I can’t wait to be outside in reasonable temperatures.

[Erik Hagen]

You may also want to bring microspikes.  As the snow re-freezes each night morning travel is more challenging.  Last year I got turned back on a trail in Yosemite due to a 100 foot section of snow/ice field on side of mountain.  If only I had brought my miscrospikes…

[Matthew / BPL]

Erik, we are taking Hillsound Trail Crampons.

[Matthew / BPL]

Duomid XL + XL Inner

-or-

Grace Duo + Bivies

Leaving in a couple days for 6 or 8 nights along the North Lake South Lake Loop + some off-trail exploring. Long term weather report is looking clear. Two people

Duomid XL is silnylon, rig weighs ~42 ounces. Excellent weather protection and more defensible space during a mosquito onslaught. Large footprint at 7.5×9’.

Grace Duo is .51 DCF. Superlight & Borah bivies. Total weight is about 21 ounces and much lower volume. Simplicity is the main advantage here. We like to camp without a tarp unless it’s raining and can slide in almost anywhere with a bivy. Less weather protection in a big storm (we’d likely bring an SOL large Mylar as a ground sheet for a stormy night, it’s large enough to make a bathtub and fold up over our feet a bit). Much less defensible space around skeeters but we don’t hang out in camp.

Are we nuts to take our preferred simpler, smaller and lighter rig?

[jscott]

edit; I see that you don’t hang out in camp so my post was irrelevant.

[Bruce Tolley]

Seems like unless snow is forecast within your window, you should be fine under the Grace Tarp. And if by using the Mike Clelland LATS method (Look at the sky) you suspect bad weather, take more time with camp site selection.

[jscott]

Mosquitoes will be brutal. Just sayin’.

Great hike though!

[Bruce Tolley]

On the skeeters topic.  This is the trip with your son, right?  When the skeeters come out for the hour before and right after sunset, when solo hiking I usually dive into my mosquito net bivy and read for a bit or just sleep. When I go out with my son, we often hang out in the TarpTent and play cards together until it gets cold enough for the mosquitoes to rest for the night.

If you think you might be socializing during that time, that might argue for the MLD net under the DuoMid XL.

A lot depends on your style of hiking. You could walk until after dark then pitch the tarp.

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