Shouldering the Load.

Can you share your shoulder exercises? I only did military press in the past but imagine trapezius workout (shrugs) would be best.

I ran into a neck/shoulder problem this summer while thru-hiking the JMT. I was pushing the weight limit of a golite jam 50 with a 10 day resupply, had removed their old foam under their 3D mesh back, and the pack was buckling under the weight. I lost weight too so my hipbelt was about to the end of each side..lol. That, coupled with buckling, started causing significant burning discomfort in my shoulder, first on the left and then both sides. I tried repacking multiple times and it would work for awhile, but then just buckle again in the mid pack area. After the trip, my right side is fine and the left shoulder/neck strain will last more months but is improving day by day.

After using lots of framed backpacks, I have been using frameless for the last several years and I train with 22 to 23 lbs for 5.5 to 7 miles with 1100-1250 ft elevation some 15 times a month throughout the year. Don’t use a hip belt.

I believe strongly that you can adapt your body with training.

Lots of people will try it once or twice and then give up while it actually takes anywhere from 3 to 4 weeks to adapt to the loads you are trying to carry. Of course there is a limit – but that limit is higher than most people think it is. A person who has never run a marathon cannot be expected to run 10 miles on day 1 while training for one. You build up slowly from 2 miles and increasing every week with more miles etc.

When training for Arizona trail, I wanted to train with 3L’s of water. The first few times, it was awful as water weight is more painful as it is dense in a small area as opposed to spread throught out the backpack. But after a month, I can do it.

I have had bad days with both framed packs and frameless packs. I have encountered folks with framed packs who love their framed packs complain about shoulders hurting.

30 # is a lot – but perhaps it is your shoulder exercises that are helping. I know Ray Jardine on one of his PCT hikes commented their backpacks weighed 31 lbs with water in the desert. For a short while, those loads are okay as the weight will come down. But for sustained day in and day out thru hikes where you are putting lots of miles, 25 lbs and occasional 30 lbs are definitely doable.

I have also found that the heavier the frameless backpack and stiffer the material, the hip belt if used will provide good support for those heavy carries. I have a x33 camo XPAC frameless backpack that weighs in at 29 oz – but, that thing carries loads as well if not better than many framed backpacks. Compare this to the same load in a 10 oz Nero – I prefer the Xpac backpack even ahead of the MLD Prophet (21od) at 17 oz. Current favourite is Alien Outdoor Novum coming in at 19.6 oz. The shoulder straps are super wide and carry the load amazingly well.

True about the adaptation.  But I find the older I get, the less quickly and efficiently my body adapts, and the more recovery time it takes. I’m only in my early 40’s, and don’t look forward to 50’s and especially 60’s in relation to this.

Agree about more stiff fabric packs and how they tend to carry weight better.  I plan on testing a siliconized S glass fiberglass silpoly composite in relation to this.

I’ll provide a counter example to strengthen your hypothesis. Despite a continuous regime of running, hiking, walking and cycling year-round, resulting in solid fitness, I do zero upper body strength training. Consequently, even with a hipbelt some random part of my shoulders or back will hurt a little after a few hours of backpacking, almost regardless of load. My upper body just isn’t conditioned to backpacking like my legs are conditioned to running or climbing hills without weight.

Wisner – or anyone – have you read The Comfort Crisis yet?

@Murali, I agree. I’ve always carried pretty minimal packs (GoLite Jam, HMG Southwest). I think these packs train you to carry on the shoulders, like it or not. I’ve never minded.

@John, I do a range. I said shoulder strengthening, but you’re right, this also involves the traps and the whole shoulder girdle. I work with kettlebells a lot: cleans, snatches, presses, swings…Turkish getups are great for overall shoulder stability (if done safely/properly). I think they all help that area. As well as deadlifts and farmer’s carries. I also do a whole shoulder PT routine because of a labrum/rotator tear but that’s a different thing…

I know the neck strain/stingers you’re talking about. I’ve found that the weighted pack carries I described above have helped with that. I used to get that stiff neck on trips. By carrying weight throughout the year, I don’t.

Front load the work, I think many people would possibly enjoy their trips more.

30 # is a lot – but perhaps it is your shoulder exercises that are helping. I know Ray Jardine on one of his PCT hikes commented their backpacks weighed 31 lbs with water in the desert.

A lot by BPL standards but nothing by military or hunting standards. In hunting season I train with 50#. This UL thing really skews people’s perspectives about what’s heavy  ;) I think 30# is actually a quite moderate real-world load, especially for a multiday trip.

@chris, I have read The Comfort Crisis, it was a fun read. I was in the same boat as you…I didn’t do a whole lot of dedicated strength training until about 4 years ago. I assumed that just running and hiking a lot I’d be fine. I got away with that when I was younger. But I’m finding the strength training has been super important, especially as I age.

And to give credit where credit is due, I think Alan Dixon turned many people on to this approach through his post:

https://www.adventurealan.com/train-for-hiking-backpacking/

I’ve found the general 2 day weighted hike program in this quite sound when combined with an overall workout routine. It’s the general framework I use for my weighted hikes- one medium, one long, in combination with weightlifting, mobility, and other cardio activities.

I weight train 5 days a week. Walk just about 2 miles ( 1.8 ) to work 5 days a week and also run 2 miles 5 days a week.. with my pack on my back @ 20 lbs. Been doing this for good 9 years on point. Having a heavy load on my back for with no hipbelt for consecutive miles was never a problem for me. On my NPT thruhike in September I used my Circuit Pack with hipbelt, starting weight was 30 – 32 lbs.. that was 2 liters of water and 8 days of food in my Bearikade Blazer. Having the hipbelt was a pleasure, though if i did not have it I dont think it would have broken me. For my winter loads I think I will use the Circuit with hip belts.. it also gives me one less thing to keep track of because I will utilize the hip belt pockets and not carry the “Bumster”. Im all for “take less” so I have less to keep track of and worry about. Yes I think 30 lbs is respectable for multi day trip. Really, if you are in decent shape and conditioned properly, have a healthy diet and routine.. 30 lbs is NOT heavy or burdensome AT ALL. People!!! Take care of yourselves! Its the little things to make changes a life style and stick with them.

I would humbly submit that carrying too much stress in the shoulder and neck region is a large cause of pain for backpackers. My massage therapist would tell me horror stories of some of the uber tense people she had attempted to unknot. So I would suggest equal at least, measures of yoga and stretching to weights. And stretch your neck and shoulders before lifting, no cold lifting folks.

I would humbly submit that carrying too much stress in the shoulder and neck region is a large cause of pain for backpackers.

…and probably the population at large! I’d also add underhydration to the tension issue.

If my insanely overpriced health care plan would only cover massage therapy…but no, the place is generally nothing but a pill dispensary. No deep tissue massage, but I’m sure they would give me all the muscle relaxants and painkillers I can eat.

I hope this is not too much of a thread drift, but when I hear talk about weight limits, I think about body types. I am 5-10, 135-ish pounds and built for running. My son is 5-10, 170-ish, built for moving heavy stuff, and devoted to crossfit and weightlifting. When we backpack together, I can carry about half of what he can carry. My usual pack weight is 18-23# and he’s fine with 40#. I max out at about 30# while he can manage 60#.

That said, I appreciate all the suggestions about how and where to carry the weight and the importance of training — for me, a necessity.

Larry – are there any published studies about carrying frameless packs without hip belt can cause long term issues in later years? Just curious if we are hurting our bodies etc – or if anyone knows – please share.

JVD – are you talking of carrying these weights hip belt less?

Wisner – did you try carrying those weights on your HMG 3400? I have been surprised by how there is no correlation to thickness of shoulder straps to how comfortable a backpack can carry. For example, vest style straps are so thin – but they still carry loads comfortably compared to say MLD or SWD whose shoulder straps are plush.

Murali C, <span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>with</span> hip belts for both of us. I have only carried weight without a hip belt occasionally.

I’m intrigued about training without a belt. I get what you’re saying about vests. I’m surprised at how comfortable mine is with, say 15+#. And all shoulders.

Murali C, sorry not a physiotherapist so anything I say about wear and tear from beltless packs is conjecture. I’ll I would hazard as a guess is that you  put load on your spine as opposed to the hip/lower body. Weightlifters say the stronger your back the less likelihood of injury. Sounds reasonable as long as the training to get there doesn’t injure you. Start small and work up.

I have a roughly 22 lb. vest I use and think it is as close to actual backpacking as I’ll get in the city. It is different in that the weight is balanced front to back unlike most backpacks.

Keep the weight reasonable and it should be fine. Some of those vests go north of 100 lbs. Mine is a running vest but I just hike trails around town. With the smaller sizes you look more like a fitness buff than military/ law enforcement which I like.

One other thing I like is I walk fast but this helps when I walk with someone with a slower pace.

I don’t think anyone but you can know how well your body structure will handle strap pressure on collarbones ect.

I have only seen those backpack weight studies in grade school kids.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/how-much-should-your-childs-school-backpack-weigh

https://www.health.harvard.edu/child-and-teen-health/bad-backs-and-backpacks

But a search does show alot of articles..still looking around.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130221141604.htm

Old thread on topic.

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/73971/

I dunno. The spinal column isn’t designed to carry massive loads. the legs are. Leg muscles are many times more powerful than any other muscles in the body. For me, getting the weight off my shoulders/spine and onto my hips and legs is far more comfortable than carrying weight on my shoulders–even when I had pretty good upper body strength (swimming and weights). I do wonder about possible compression of the spinal column or other wear and tear long term. A frameless pack with no belt utilizes the spine as part of its structure. Not so a true framed pack.

If a framed pack appeared that came within shouting distance of an entirely unframed pack with no belt, weight wise–say, within a pound (I’m imagining here)…would people still go frameless? Some seem to like the whole sensibility of a frameless pack, and they work well for them.

Thanks JVD and Larry. John – started reading the articles. Too bad the science daily one didn’t mention the weights.

I think my weights will rarely go beyond 22 or 23 lbs. Most of the time I will be under that and sometimes above that for very short durations.

jscott – I have wondered about that. The porters on the Machu Picchu trail and in the Himalayas all carry their weight on their head with a tump line and can carry 100 lbs if not more. African folks carry heavy water loads on their head with babies on their back. Here is a story from Patagonia’s founder and how he found tump line and his experience:

https://www.patagonia.com/stories/on-tumplines/story-18753.html

thanks for the link Murali! Hmmmm. The tump line worked for Chouinard. It never would for me. Everyone’s different. Again, I don’t see the neck as being well designed for carrying loads–and yet it’s done! My guess is that growing up in a family of porters and starting out early will develop those “massive ropes of muscles down the sides of the spine” and neck  that Chouinard noticed. That’s gotta help! (I may have slightly misquoted.)

If you carry the weight on your head it’s directly over your center of mass and feet.  Maybe that makes a difference.  As compared to a backpack hanging from your back.

I find a hip belt to be quite effective

The problem I have with shoulder carrying is when they curl and become very narrow and cut into my shoulder.  I need to work on my shoulder pads so they don’t do this.

“The spinal column isn’t designed to carry massive loads. the legs are. Leg muscles are many times more powerful than any other muscles in the body. For me, getting the weight off my shoulders/spine and onto my hips and legs is far more comfortable than carrying weight on my shoulders–even when I had pretty good upper body strength (swimming and weights). I do wonder about possible compression of the spinal column or other wear and tear long term. A frameless pack with no belt utilizes the spine as part of its structure. Not so a true framed pack.”

Completely agree, and this will become more of an issue the older you become.  Strengthening your shoulder muscles does nothing to take the load off your spine and, over time, depending on them to uh…shoulder the load will only increase the likelihood of back problems that could have been avoided by using a well designed backpack with a frame that efficiently transfers the weight to your hips, where the leg muscles can do the work.  There are plenty of them out there that will do the job well.  My own personal preference has long been the venerable ULA OHM, which I have been using in various versions since it came out for loads up to ~25#.  My oldest version weighs in at a svelte 24 ounces, stripped of all the bells and whistles and, while I have tried later versions, is the one I always returned to for the tougher routes.  I have finally gotten old enough that I no longer have to worry about that problem, but I think the approach still has validity, no matter which brand of pack you end up with.

This is interesting, because people are saying the spine is not designed for “massive” loads…but a 30# pack is not massive. It’s 14% of my bodyweight…and for reference, I can squat 225 and deadlift substantially more. So let’s not forget the relativity of loads here, nor the role of strength training in affecting the threshold of what’s comfortable or safe to carry.

In my world, the “massive” loads occur in the weight room, not on the trail. I’m a fan of Dr. Peter Attia. He’s currently putting a ton of research into maintaining a high fitness level while aging- and strength training plays a huge role in his findings. We’re not talking 30 rep stuff, but heavy lifting. If sarcopenia is a steady linear decrease in muscle mass beginning in the 40s, “light” strength training still equals substantial strength losses as you age. While I can wholly accept this will happen to an extent, I would like to stave it off for as long as I can. I still participate in quite a few activities that require absolute strength…which simply can’t be maintained without going heavy. Doing this safely is possible.

Splitting hairs over exercise philosophy/science is entertaining, but I cringe a little when people get overly cautious about engaging rigorous physical activities while our society increasingly suffers from an epidemic of physical inactivity.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/03/12/517923490/how-does-a-nepalese-sherpa-carry-so-much-weight

You can see the picture in that article of a Nepali porter. Don’t underestimate the spine :-) BTW – the strongest bone in the body is thigh bone – not the hips. In fact, the weak point is the ball/socket joint of the thigh bone to the hip bone – while the thigh bone/femur by itself is stronger or as strong as steel/concrete.