SD High Route tent – pole guyline angle to tent wall

[Doug Coe]

I’m pondering a myog varation on the fly of the SD High Route tent. Part of my idea is influenced by the angle (as seen from above) of the guylines from the top of the poles.

Do they really need to be in line with the tent’s ridge? Or could they be more perpendicular to the long side of the tent? More like in the second photo on Andrew Skurka’s article on version 2 (due out next spring).

[Franco Darioli]

With a similar design i get a much better tension having the guyout line continuing the ridge line than otherwise.

That is why I suggest using a separate (from the door panel) stake for it

[Doug Coe]

Franco—I assume you’re referring to the TT Stratospire, yes?

[Franco Darioli]

Yes.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

The ridgeline guyout situation for the High Route is very different from the StratoSpire. The StratoSpire design is symmetrical around the ridgeline, so it should be guyed out directly along the ridgeline (unless there was some serious cross wind you were trying to compensate for):

Conversely, the High Route design is not symmetrical around the ridgeline. Rather, the fly fabric only supports the ridgeline from one side, so the design is relying on the ridgeline guyline for both outward pull and support from the other side. I’ve spent quite a bit of time lately thinking about the ideal guyline orientation for this type of situation because my X-Mid tent also uses a design that isn’t symmetrical around the ridgeline (although to a lesser extent since that design does have moderate outwards pull and support from the other side).

With the HR, what you want is a guyline angle that pulls outwards along the ridgeline, but also pulls to one side to compensate for the fly pulling to other side. The ideal orientation would be somewhere around 20 – 30 degrees away from parallel, as depicted. With that said, there’s some wiggle room here so you could probably do 10 – 50 degrees.

[Doug Coe]

Dan—Wow, this forum (and my luck) is amazing! Ask a tent question and the designer of a brilliant (and new) tent answers!

I can’t quite understand the idea of “the fly fabric only supports the ridgeline from one side”. I think of this question as: What if you didn’t have a guyline? The pole would fall into the tent rather parallel to the long side of the fly.

My idea is to have doors that slope out with their lower points about 15 inches away from the pole (to create little gear vestibules). And have them zippered and attached to the stake of the guyline similar to the Zpacks Duplex’ doors (short line with double hook hardware).

Your idea of rotating the guylines about thirty degrees makes for better shaped vestibules and a better result when rolling up the big door and keeping the smaller one tied to the stake.

Thank you so much for your expert insight!

[Moderator/Roger: If this belongs in myog, you can move it there. Thanks.]

[Franco Darioli]

Dan is correct about the angle of the guylines on the HR .

So, yes you need to work it out on the exact design not just the generic shape/design description .

 

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

I can’t quite understand the idea of “the fly fabric only supports the ridgeline from one side”. I think of this question as: What if you didn’t have a guyline? The pole would fall into the tent rather parallel to the long side of the fly.

Yeah that’s a fine way to think about it. As shown below, the fabric on the left side of the ridgeline supports the pole so won’t fall right (away from the tent), but it could fall left into the tent. The pole also wouldn’t fall parallel to the long side (as you say) since there is a little outward pull from the steeper corner, but not much. So with a guyline you want more outward pull and support on the right side so the pole won’t fall left.

Your idea of rotating the guylines about thirty degrees makes for better shaped vestibules and a better result when rolling up the big door and keeping the smaller one tied to the stake.
Feel free to MYOG it. I think it’s awesome and would be happy to see other folks getting along with it. Only downside is that the X-Mid is priced at such a deal that your materials would probably cost almost the same as just buying one.

[Doug Coe]

Dan—Thanks for the explanation.

What I’m envisioning isn’t replicating your tent. Rather the HR with poles in line with the four corner stake points, but having the doors slant out to create little triangular vestibules.

I’ll draw it up and show it on the forum some weeks from now after a road trip and some more work on it.

I haven’t gotten too far into planning, so I haven’t priced materials. I sure hope they cost considerably less than $200!

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

I’ll look forward to seeing the sketch.

[Franco Darioli]

“I sure hope they cost considerably less than $200!”
Even if you already have a sewing machine and needles that can handle the job, you may find that once you include the postage from the various suppliers and you get into a second or third design as it often happens, maybe $200 is not far from what you will spend.
Of course it can be a lot more fun (if that is the idea) but I don’t see many DIY tent projects undercutting by far existing products.

[Doug Coe]

Franco—Thanks for the heads up on costs. I’m not looking for “fun” so much as a shelter that’s the way I want it. I’ll see if it’s worth it all (money and blood, sweat, and tears) once I get going on it this fall.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

It really depends what kind of quality materials you’re after, but if you’re buying decent stuff at retail about the lowest cost you can go is:
$60 – 12 yards of nylon/poly at $5 per yard
$20 – 4 yards of noseeum mesh at $5 yard
$25 – zippers for fly and inner
$15 – various hardware (buckles, clips, lineloc’s, grommet)
$10 – roll goods (grosgrain, webbing, cord, shockcord, velcro)
TOTAL: $130

And that’s assuming relatively low prices. If you buy the “mountain silnylon” from Ripstopbytheroll it’s $12.50 per yard so you’re at $150 just for that.

But yeah it’s a great experience. Hopefully you can get it exactly how you want it (that’s usually my motivation) but even if it doesn’t work very well, it’s fun to build your own gear and you learn a lot doing it.

[Doug Coe]

Dan—Thank you for the cost estimate. Yeah, it’s really more about getting something just the way I want it, plus the fun of playing with the ideas, and having time on my hands. Not so much about getting a cheap shelter.

I made one shelter some years ago (a slight variation on the RayWay tarp design, which is a pain to crawl into and requires too many stakes), so I’ve done a bit of this kind of thing. Though this new one will be more complicated to make.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Nice you have some experience. That’ll come in very handy.

[Roger Caffin]

I can’t help feeling that Dan’s estimate for roll goods and hardware may be a bit low – maybe.
Good fabric is good fabric.

Cheers

[Doug Coe]

Roger—Thanks for the heads up. I’m starting with just a fly/outer shelter, which will make it seem not so expensive. Then plan on making a bathtub floor, and some kind of bug net thingie. When all done I’ll probably have spent a fair bit!

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