Remote Inverted Canister Winter Stove V6

[Roger Caffin]

Companion forum thread to: Remote Inverted Canister Winter Stove V6

Longtime Backpacking Light contributor Roger Caffin debuts the V6 model of his inverted canister stove.

[Michael Puckett]

Hi Roger, Its been some years since I purchased one of the earlier models from you. I enjoy trying new equipment. Is the V6 for sale. I enjoied your article and would love to try one out.

Kindest regards,

[email and mailing address removed. Suggested that you use a Private Message to contact and discuss. – MK]

[Roger Caffin]

More testing done since the article was written. Goes well.
Now selling.
Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

Please, any enquiries to [email protected], not to PM as PM cannot include files. Yes, stoves are available.
Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

I seem to do this every time (with each model). I forget to give the weight!
The V6 weighs 82 grams.

Cheers

[Jeff McWilliams]

I’m still using one of your earliest stoves with the FMS-116T burner head.  I don’t do a lot of winter camping these days, but it’s a fun stove to also use for fry-baking, pancakes, etc.  The biggest gripe that my wife and I have about it is poor stability with wider pots and skillets like the MSR skillet.

I’ve been thinking of replacing it with a Kovea Spider for similar trips, but I’m intrigued by the V6.

How well does the V6 stove simmer?  Can it go really low for fry-baking?

My ONLY experience with vortex stoves in the past was with MSR Dragonfly stoves on winter trips and a glacier mountaineering trip.  I remember the those vortex burners being quit loud.  Is that still the case?

[Roger Caffin]

The biggest gripe that my wife and I have about it is poor stability with wider pots and skillets like the MSR skillet.
That is a problem with most upright stoves. They do not have very long pot supports. Care is needed.
The V6 (and the V4) address this problem by having pot supports going out to the edge of a large pot, and also by having 4 supports rather than 3. The stability is much greater.

How well does the V6 stove simmer? Can it go really low for fry-baking?
It simmers very well. It has to, because its primary customer is ME, and I cook our dinners rather than just boil water.
I have never tried fry-baking, so I don’t know the answer there. Actually, I don’t really know what the term means. If it means dry-baking (a typo), then I think it should be fine. But dry-baking always risks damage to the outer pot, and I carry only one pot anyhow.

Yes, it makes a vortex noise. That is inherent in the design of the burner/flame. Actually, my wife likes the noise: to her it is saying ‘dinner is coming’ (or maybe ‘coffee is coming’).

Cheers

[Jeff McWilliams]

Thanks.

Drybaking = Frybaking?
The Banks Fry-Bake company is where I’m most familiar with the term “frybake” vs “drybake”.

https://frybake.com/products/

[James Marco]

Frybaking is pretty much what I do. The major difference drybaking simply uses the cup/pot inside another pot, or, a heating chamber around the item being cooked. Frybaking uses about a teaspoon of oil or a few teaspoons of butter in a single pot with the lid on. Both require a relatively low heat compared with boiling water or cooking. The internal temp is around 300-350F (roughly equivalent to a slow oven) for both, but drybaking is less efficient. The oil in frybaking tends to transfer the heat to the item a bit more efficiently, and, it can burn easily (well, my daughter calls it carmelized.) It works well for small amounts of doughy/battery stuff. Mostly I use it to make fritters out of stuff I find on the trail: apples, berries, etc. I mix up a small batch of Bisquik, or the like and add the stuff in, add oil to the pot, then drop the mix into my greased pot for about 15-20min.

[Jeff McWilliams]

James,

Any recipe book suggestions?  I’m always looking for ways to make camping with my grandson more enjoyable, so those are the trips when I’m willing to do a bit more gourmet.

[James Marco]

No, not really. Just anything I find I toss in to the mix, even fiddleheads. A little more work preparing, you can add 1/2 cup Bisquik, 1/4 cup sugar/cinnamon, and a packet of apples & cinnamon oatmeal. It makes a fairly good breakfast for 2. Of course, everything liquid is water and I add a little extra for the oatmeal. You can make it fairly doughy, roll into small tablespoon balls, a couple tablespoons of olive oil and cook them. They get crunchy/hard. They are easy to put in your bandana and in your pocket for a quick snack on the trail.

[James Marco]

Anyway, the old V1 (FM300T) holds a very small flame, you cannot even boil a single cup of water with it. Or, you can crank it up and boil 3cups in 4 minutes. I REALLY like the flame adaptability and the size.

Roger, on the canister valve, the “O” ring retainer (the part that also wedges into the fingers to hold it down to the canister) has come loose twice now. Once it jammed down and I could not get it loose. (I clipped the canister/lindal valve off with a small Leatherman scissors.) I glued it back with some super glue, but this only holds for a year or so. The design should be modified to avoid that problem (‘O’ ring loss.) Removing all the stress from the retainer would be ideal. (Perhaps extend the body slightly and inset the retainer into the body, this should remove the potential jamming problem of a separate piece..)

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

In my experiences, each cooking technique requires a different level of heat

Boiling – 400 watts and above

Frying – 200 watts

Dry baking – 100 watts

My 2 cents.

[James Marco]

Absolutely, John. I believe a somewhat better measurement, for me at least, is to simply weigh the fuel used. 100W x 1/2 hour is 50 Wh. 400Wx0.1h (or, 6min) is only 40Wh.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi James

I think what you are calling the O-ring retainer is what I call the ‘Main Ring’?
It is held in place with two #0 x 6 mm self-tapping screws, marked with red lines in the photo below.

Under normal use there should be almost no force on those screws. They require a bit of force to pull them out (as opposed to unscrewing them), and this can only be done by unscrewing the Spider (the ring with the fingers) with some force beyond what is needed. So, are those two screws still in place?

If they are not there, they can be replaced. If they have been pulled out the thread in the plastic may be damaged, but this can be dealt with in several ways. How about you email me a photo of how it is now and we should be able to restore it to 100%.

I support my stoves.

As for stove power: a good canister stove should be able to poke out well over 2.5 kWatts, up to 3 kW. A large electric hotplate on a kitchen stove can put out maybe 2.4 kW flat out, and most canister stoves are more powerful than that. White gas stoves are somewhat less powerful than canisters. But as Jon points out, most cooking does not need that power.

Cheers

[James Marco]

Roger, Thanks, but I already got it fixed. The screws are still in place, but, they stripped the threads out the first time it got jammed. By the third time, I have it down to a 15minute repair job that can be done in the field. It is just annoying because a simple design change can prevent it.

The stove is very efficient except for the actual cans.

[Roger Caffin]

You can do a better repair job IF you have a drill press with a small vise. You will also need a 1.3 mm drill bit, preferably a stub drill. (Or a Number 55.)

Remove the self-tappers and the ‘Main ring’. Rotate the Ring something like 15 degrees and replace it. The holes in the Ring now face solid plastic, away from the damaged holes. Mount the connector in the vice with the big thread pointed up. Carefully align the drill bit to one hole in the Ring and drill a hole 8 mm deep. A drop of water or oil to keep the bit cool would help. Repeat for the other hole without moving the ring (so the two holes are aligned).
You can now insert the self-tappers, creating new threads in the plastic.

I tried to design something which could do the same job with the Main Ring without the self-tappers, but so far without joy. Suggestions would be welcome.

Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

Someone asked what the legs look like when folded back, and there is no photo in the article. So, here is one, taken during development. The hose goes to the left. Bolts rather than pop-rivets at this stage.

Cheers

 

[James Marco]

Roger, I expect a second set of screws would work, also. I believe the culprit is the temp changes. It goes from 40F-60F (4.5-15.5C) to ~25F(about -5C) causing those things to just bind up.
Thanks, but I think I have to set up my drill press for the new screws as a permanent fix.

[Roger Caffin]

New screw holes would certainly be the best. Rotating the Main Ring means you would still have the recesses for the heads of the screws.

Myself, I have never had any problems with temperature changes over the -10 C to +35 c range, but who knows?

Cheers

[Jarvis M]

Hey Roger do you still have any of the V6 (or now maybe even V7?) stoves available to buy? I would be super keen to try one out

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Jarvis

Um – good Q. I have most of one stove left, but I am not sure I have all the hose bits, like the connnectors. I will have to have a look in the ‘cupboard’. Beyond that would need some machining as I have run out of stove bodies. I will go and have a look, and return today or tomorrow.

Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

That needs a direct contact via [email protected]
Cheers

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