Reassessing my rain gear solutions

Thanks – this will be an interesting thread to follow.  I’ve found that my legs simply get wet when hiking in any rain, no matter what I’ve tried.  I’ve hiked with my Gatewood Cape, an umbrella, my beloved Packa, Dri-Ducks, and probably a few other options on top.  I used to carry rain pants, but never wore them hiking because I got too hot.  Switched to carrying cuben chaps for a while, but never bothered to put them on because I found that my hiking pants dried pretty quickly once I was out of the rain and my legs generated so much heat while moving that I never got cold.  I’m one who walks through streams regardless of how cold it is, so I’m somewhat used to hiking with cold wet feet so I may not be a good barometer for this topic.

I wonder if you’re better off accepting wet legs while hiking and carrying something light and dry to put on once you stop for the night.

“…this will be an interesting thread to follow.”

Agreed.  I have recently sidelined my (last gen) Versalite jacket in favor of a DriDucks jacket.  I also have gone to a sil rain skirt for most temps and generally just accepted wetness from the knees down.

When multi-day rain or hypothermia is a possibility, a 3L Gore-tex jacket/Versalite pants/WP socks combination is employed.

In all cases I have no real problems with this system, but rain is one of those conditions where you can’t help thinking that things could always be better :)

I try to be a fair weather hiker but I get rained on a lot regardless

Waterproof jacket – condensation inside makes the cure worse than the disease

Some WPB jackets aren’t breathable enough, still get a lot of condensation inside

Waterproof poncho sort of works (except around shoulder, hood) but if it’s windy it gets blown around a lot

Good WPB jacket works best.  Extra baggy for less condensation inside.  Extra long to keep the top of my pants dry.  At least it keeps my pockets dry.

I have a decades old 3 layer jacket that still works, but it’s heavy.

I made 2.5 layer eVent jacket but it delaminated at shoulders and hood.

Now, I make one with 2.5 layer WPB and have a lining at the shoulders and hood.  14 ounces.

I just wear nylon pants.  Supplex.  It gets wet in the rain but it dries out quickly.  Wet Supplex isn’t as uncomfortable as regular nylon.  There are a lot of pants for sale with similar fabric – tight weave, feels more cottony than regular nylon.

Rain gear keeps you warm, not dry, as you hike.  Stop hiking–or go slow enough to not sweat, if that’s even possible–and rain gear can keep you dry.

When hiking, I tend to think of a shell’s primary function is to keep me warm enough to not get dangerously cold from evaporative cooling, generally while generating heat by moving. Not necessarily keeping me dry.  My experience both bike racing and running ultras leads me to the conclusion that no matter how breathable a garments marketing hype says it is, it will quickly wet out under even moderate exertion. This includes the latest and greatest, and ponchos. While the poncho windshirt combo works, I still end up wet under it. My own best combo so far is a MLD poncho, Patagonia windshirt, shorts or 3/4 tights, possibly gloves and waterproof mitts. The mitts are important because I’ve found I can still become cold and the fingers need to be working well to get the shelter up fast should I get cold.

If it is really cold then I will plan on moving slower, having more layers, e.g. early November in Sierra. This means heavier shells (e.g. 2 or 3 layer gore tex or event). Full jacket, mitts and pants, with layers under… and dry layers to potentially change into.

My 2 cents. ;-)

What is actually comfortable in the rain?

For me its freedom of movement.

When everything is wet it sticks and clings to you. Soaked upper pant legs that saran wrap themselves to your thighs are the worst!

The best part about 3 layer wpb are the linings that keep the soaked layer from sticking to what is beneath it, until they too wet out from sweat. But some are genuinely less clingy and more comfortable than others when wet.

I tried a rain kilt and found it too hot over normal clothing so I was soaked with sweat. Wore it one day on the AT over my long briefs and worked well enough but a bit too transparent for me. I have since switched to Montbell convertible rain pants  with the bottoms zipped off over briefs in rainy weather. They work great and seem to breathe well enough for me to stay comfortable and not soaked in sweat.

rarely does my WPB wet out and I get wet inside

maybe a little at the shoulders, head, upper back

you definitely have to avoid overheating.  Then you start sweating and it’s hopeless, you’ll get wet

if it’s drizzly or a brief heavy rain I can stay pretty dry inside

heavy rain all day I’ll start getting wet.  If I’m only wearing a shirt and WPB jacket, at least there isn’t a lot that gets wet, so it’ll dry just wearing it when it stops raining

I try to stay both dry and warm, but if I have to pick one, I’ll pick the latter.  I’ve had a lot of success with lightweight wicking layers under the shells; they tend to pull sweat away and they give me a barrier between my skin and the clammy shell materials. For me, the worst time is the summer: I’m usually dressed so lightly that it’s hard stand full-length layers during wet weather.

I tend to always wear long sleeves and tights regardless of my outer layers. I have rain gear but it gets used sparingly as we have pretty dry weather on the Central Ca coast. My usual priority is to keep all my sleeping stuff dry first. I am thinking a synthetic set of insulating pants and jacket is in my future, since those will keep me warming even if they get soaked. If it was a survival situation (almost never a risk for me), I’d get a proper rain jacket, but for now, if I think it is going to rain for sure, I throw the frog Togs suit in the pack, and if only slight chance, I throw a 1oz emergency poncho in the pack instead. I keep some insulated cycling gloves that keep my hands warm, and recently picked up some of those showa insulated gloves to try out next time I am out. Warm/functional hands are big deal for me even in the mild weather I live in.

Whether or not you can just let yourself get wet depends on temperature, wind, and how long it rains. If it’s in the 40s F (or even 50s) and you get soaked, you may be able to stay warm enough while moving but the minute you stop you’re going to get very cold very quickly. When you stop you’re going to have to either get in a shelter or change layers very quickly, neither of which is easy/possible to do without getting cold or getting dry layers wet.

I’ve spent a fair bit of time backpacking and packrafting in shoulder-season conditions where it’s wet and cold. I’ve experimented with a wicking grid fleece layer beneath a windshirt, and while it’s possible to stay warm and semi-dry in this system, it takes much longer to dry out and the wicking layer can’t be considered part of your insulation system. As much as people bash WPBs, I’ve found that good/light 3L jacket and pants are the best option. My new Gore Shakedry jacket has been a gamechanger – hopefully it lasts! I really, really, really wish there was more work being done on non-absorbent WPB fabrics. These could be the ultimate solution.

If it’s warmer and/or the wet weather is short-lived, it becomes more of a comfort issue than a safety issue. You can decide whether you prefer to be hot/clammy or cooler/wet.

In the quest to achieve our goals, sometimes we forget that slowing down is an option. In some conditions, you can’t hike slow enough to avoid sweating in a WPB, but it certainly helps.

When rain and cold–possible hypothermia–is a possibility or you’re hiking in these conditions, I find a 3 layer Event or Gore jacket works well. If it’s cold you’re less likely to sweat and wet out the jacket that way; meanwhile, 3 layers have kept me dry from the rain.

if it’s warm and raining, discomfort but not hypothermia is the issue.

I can recall one scenario where I brought my 7 ounce 3 layer jacket by mistake, wanting something lighter. An unscheduled storm blew in with very cold temps at altitude. I had to surmount a high pass and work down to lower elevation–that took 5-6 hours total. Mostly in sleet. I would have been in bad shape without that jacket.

Well-stated. There are different solutions for different situations – I am definitely enjoying seeing how others tackle the same problem. I also hope the WPB fabrics continue to improve. The last time I got rained on, I had an LL Bean goretex jacket and REI goretex pants, and they definitely did not keep me dry, although I was not uncomfortable since it was not that cold. The WPB fabrics have their limits, and also they have a limited useful life that is not really easy to determine without experiencing the failure/limit.

Mostly I’ve gotten used to having wet skin when it rains, and compensating to stay warm enough in other ways. Might be related to being wet-but-warm most of the time on whitewater rafting trips.

What works for me depends mostly on wind:

– Cold (32 F to 50 F), windy (subjective):
Big rain hat plus poncho over windshirt and windpants, with fleece and various gloves as needed. Both the shirt and pants have decent DWR, but wet out in a couple hours. If it’s still raining, I’ll take off the wind pants, hike a little faster, and skip some rest stops, or look for sheltered rest stops. A thin bungie cord waist strap keeps the poncho more-or-less in place. Poncho is big enough to go over backpack, never under.

– Cold, breezy to calm:
Take baseball cap and umbrella instead of hat and poncho, plus all of the above. Again, if pants wet out and become annoying, off they go, and compensate elsewhere. Wet shirt arms over fleece or polypro isn’t a big deal. Umbrella angled to block wind works surprisingly well.

Even if I misjudge the wind, an umbrella works pretty well in higher winds if used properly. Much easier to deal with than a poncho, especially for on/off. And and umbrella keeps my glasses much drier, so I can see where I’m walking. Safety first! I prefer the umbrella.

Tip: tuck unused-but-furled umbrella between pack and bottom of shoulder strap. Mine comfortably rides there for hours, easy to grab when the next squall rolls through. Don’t need no fancy pockets or straps. Otherwise it rides vertically in a side pocket.

– Warm (50 F+):
I’ve heard some pretty tall tales about warm rain, but don’t believe them :-)

Tried a variety of rain jackets and rain pants. Can’t stand hiking in them, among other problems. Waterproof breathable fabrics are neither in my experience.

My HMG Windrider backpack is close-enough waterproof, so no fussing with pack covers or soaked packs. Hallelujah!

Rain skirt on my wish list, out of curiosity. Reconsidering based on this thread.

— Rex

I have older REI eVent parka and pants and they do “fairly” well in rain and snow. The parka really could use pit zips.

The pants –  well ANY rain pants are a PITA, I wear them for cold windy days and heavy rain to avoid hypothermia. But actually in the summer I don’t carry them. They are mainly for shoulder season use when hypothermia from cold rain is a real danger.

In winter I’m wearing Duluth Trading Co. fleece lined nylon cargo pants that are DWR treated (by me) and shed wet snow pretty well. Those are the best winter pants I’ve found for travel situations.

I wonder if I should make rain sleeves that extend to cover my hands to go with my poncho. That way I won’t get my arms wet and cold.

I wonder if my rain chaps would be better if turned into shorts. Rain shorts instead of a skirt to wear with my rain jacket or poncho. Shorts won’t fling around so much as a skirt.

I have always been a fair weather hiker

That’s been me for quite some time, but easy to do in the arid west.  Rain often comes with lightning and as trees disappear…

My rain gear lives in my pack, but when needed it has to work as I’ve been deluged.  So a very lightweight 3-layer waterproof breathable full zip in high viz color is my choice at almost 5 oz … no hand pockets.

Been thinking of an even lighter pullover (less zipper .. less weight for a Rab design at 2.5 oz but not 3-layer).  I have a high tolerance for rain when moving with a pack, admittedly (so far anyways)

My 3 ply Rab anorak is very good. Light too. Mine is ancient; they have a lighter version now. I’m really sold on three layer Event (or Gore). I use a WP jacket as a wind shirt, so discount the weight of not having to carry a Houdini.

“Summer” and “warm” mean different things to different people.

In the SE US it’s quite normal for daytime temps to exceed 80F, and in those cases simply hiking in the rain feels great.  It’s much better that sweating you rear end off.  After a day long shower, you are cleaner than when you started.  As long as there is no chance of hypothermia, I much prefer to just get wet.  My normal hiking clothes will dry in less than 45 min of wear once the rain stops.

I would buy an wide-enough-for-me poncho in a heartbeat. Adding sleeves doesn’t seem right somehow.

Especially since my 74 inch (188 cm) wingspan is a poor match for ponchos that max out at 60 inches (152 cm), with 52-55 much more common.

Most people’s wingspans are roughly their height. In the U.S., 55 inches leaves almost every adult with cold, wet fingers, hands, or arms.

Seems like most ponchos are an afterthought, with widths determined by common source fabric dimensions and ease of construction.

Market opportunity?

While I’m wishing, add thumb loops and a simple bungie waist strap. And make it from silpoly, not DCF or silnylon. Please.

— Rex

As has been noted, this is a tough subject since locale, season and luck all change the variables. So, my observations, moving up the scale: I always have a light 2.5 jacket like a Helium for both exposure safety and to perform as a quasi warmth/wind shirt. If I think there is any real chance of a small amount of rain: I swap out for a 3-layer goretex jacket and carry a rain-skirt and pack-cover. More than one day of rain expected: I also bring a poncho or use the DCF bathtub poncho floor of my tarp. Even more rain and cold expected: I add waterproof over-gloves and several extra socks and another pair of warm gloves. Add in dropping below 40 degrees: more dry clothes and a Ronson hand warmer, and (more) whiskey.

Is Whiskey even optional?  Nothing takes the edge off a long day of hard hiking like 1.5 oz of good alcohol.

I think Captain Morgan Rum tastes a lot better than whiskey.

Short shorts, knee high socks and rain pants that either unzip all the way up to the hips with 2 zipper pulls on either side or a zipper that goes most of the way up, say to the knee, but also buttons at the ankle. The first is the best as it allows you to create an airflow opening anywhere along the legs. Even in moderate rain you can have it open without a deluge coming in. It’s mostly temporary and meant to dump the muggy heat out.

The second works much the same as the first but you can’t negotiate the opening anywhere along the legs. You button the bottom and open the zipper as far as you want depending on rainfall. The major downer to this second design is that while going through tall grass or passing overgrown brush, your legs will get wet easily. With the first you can make this zipper opening above the knees or thigh area. Also heat rises, so..

Both of these I have found to be effective and with shorts and knee high socks, I have a fairly modular system that vents excessive heat and moisture well