Re-coating Pertex Endurance?  Down DWR Wash-ins Compared?

The outer surface of the Pertex Endurance fabric was treated with a fluoro-DWR for water-repellency, either C6 or C8. Since you don’t seem to have strong feelings about this, I would spray the outside of the bag with some C6 water repellant product. You could also use spray-on Nikwax or the spray on acrylic stuff. In my opinion, it is an open question how well Nikwax does when applied after-market on top of residual fluoro-DWR. How well does this acrylic stuff do when applied over the top of residual fluoro-DWR? Completely unknown, but you could call Grangers. (They’ll give you nothing in writing.)

The inside surface of Endurance has a light coating of polyurethane for water-resistance. There is nothing you could do to improve or restore this coating, but given that it is only subject to super-soft down-generated forces, it should be OK, unless stuffing and wrinkling might result in eventual breakdown of the coating. I don’t know how you would know if this were the case. I wouldn’t worry about it.

As far as the down itself, I’m not aware of any evidence whatsoever regarding the efficacy of after-market products to make the down hydrophobic. I would not bother with that, especially since the fabric itself is highly water-resistant. Pertex Endurance is supposed to have a hydrostatic head of about 1 meter. That is plenty to keep condensation and splash out of the bag.

I used some Nikwax Down Wash Direct

On a down garment it seemed to work okay.  Down was well lofted afterwards.  I really didn’t have any opinion about water proofness

On a WPB jacket it worked pretty good, although that really isn’t it’s primary use.  Afterwards the water proofness of the outside surface was good afterwards.

I don’t think that product actually has a wash in DWR Jerry – I looked at it closely at REI the other day because they were out of Grangers Down Repel and also Nikwax Down Proof.

I know obviously the fluorocarbons are terrible for the environment but I’m wondering if there is a way to treat these without getting it into the soil or myself. If I wore a mask and gloves and sprayed on the outside I think that would be fairly sufficient to keep it separated (maybe with the parka in a big plastic bag so oversray doesn’t go anywhere).

This also got me thinking about the wash in stuff designed for down – I’m wondering if it’s really all that different than the wash in that is/was made for hardshells or the spray on. Basically I’m thinking it’s just a diluted form of the concentrated stuff – maybe more diluted or less than hardshell wash in. I’m thinking I could make my own version by buying the still fluorocarbon based stuff from Atsko and then dilute it in water and maybe add some kind of solvent to make sure it spreads or emulsifies correctly. Instead of dumping it in a washer where it would end up washed out probably to the ocean I could soak the down items in a big plastic bucket and then try to find a safer way to dispose of the leftover liquid after. Assuming I capture all the drips after and let the items air dry before then drying them in the dryer with some heat it may be fairly safe. From what I have read most of the environmental contamination is from the manufacturing plants which makes me think that once it’s dried and heat cured a lot of it isn’t exactly making its way out of the items.

The only big question is how much do I really need to dilute this stuff and with what additives…..I have some left over untreated and treated duck down from another project so I may make a bunch of solutions at different concentrations and then soak a few individuak pieces of down and then see how they react to drying / fluffing after. I vaguely remember the fluorocarbon stuff being water soluble (may not need any additives) but I have no idea about the acrylic based stuff from Grangers or Nikwax stuff (which J have heard claimed is like a ” C0″ DWR Vs the C6 and C8 – no idea what that actually means though)

I admit for the most part I thought DWR treated down from the factory was half marketing but surprisingly when I was recently washing all my down stuff the DWR treated down items lofted back up much, much faster in the dryer even after being completely drenched. The other surprising thing was a pair of feathered friends pants (very lofty fully baffled) that do NOT have treated down in them also lofted back up much faster than other garments even after being completely waterlogged and wash with grangers down wash. In fact they fully puffed up and dried faster than a jacket that had much less down (unbaffled) that did have factory treated down. Makes me wonder if claims like from Western Mountaineering about high quality untreated down that still maintains some natural oils are actually the best option (although it seems most down is thoroughly washed and has all oils removed before manufacture).

I also have one jacket that has a lot more chambers than I would normally prefer (it’s my loaner down jacket) as it makes more cold spots due to the stitching but this jacket also lofted up much faster I believe due to the fact that large amounts of down couldn’t all clump together like in the very large baffles. I am sure the large baffle jacket has a better weight to CLO but if I was going to a more humid environment the one with the down more compartmentalized actually might make sense.

For what its worth – have you contacted Pertex and asked what they recommend? I found out the hard way that can be the best way to go. As an example, I used to have two shells, a Montane eVent shell, and an OR shell. I used Nikwax almost exclusively, but found it worked very well on the Montane shell, but not so much on the OR shell.

I contacted both. and found the Montane shell  used a wax based DWR in manufacturing, and recommended Nikwax. The OR DWR was not wax based, and just didn’t work as well. I used GearAid Revivex Durable Water Repellent on this one and it was like a brand new jacket.

Also I gave up on wash-in products. Why do I want WBP inside my garment? I switched to spray-on.

My usual routine is to clean the garment with a WBP specific cleaning soap. But before I do anything, I clean my washer wit the same product I will use on my shell.  Just run an empty washer on the hottest setting with the WBP cleaning detergent.  I found that regular detergent, and fabric softener residue left in the washer can affect the breathability of goretex and Pertex. So I clean the machine! and you need something that will rinse absolutely clean. no residue.

When I use GearAid DWR my sequence is this: clean the washer. Wash my garments with a detergent specifically designed for WBP garments. In the past I used Nathan Power Wash but they changed it recently. Both GearAid and Nikwax make free rinsing detergents.  While the shell is still wet, I thoroughly spray the exterior with the DWR, then bake it in the dryer at a temperature recommended by the manufacturer of the garment, or let it air dry and set for 48 hours.

For my down stuff I follow the same process, except I don’t use high dryer temps follow the manufacturers directions.

Sorry to digress a bit, but hoped it would be helpful. Bottom line really – I’d contact Pertex and ask them what to use, but I have high praises for the GearAid Durable Water Repellant spray. (they make two, one for quick touch ups. I don’t use that one).

Only reason I’m interested in wash in is because I want to try to add water resistance to the down itself – the shell I would definitely spray on. For heat treatment (some DWR require it and others don’t) I’ve found using an iron on the face fabric at the highest setting the fabric can handle works well. Just gotta be very careful. Given the age of this thing it’s almost certainly it was originakl equipped with a C8 DWR which is mostly gone now