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Rattlesnakes


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Viewing 13 posts - 26 through 38 (of 38 total)
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  • #3412129
    Kattt
    BPL Member

    @kattt

    @ Gary, thanks for all that fascinating information.

    @ Clue, gottcha. I was on the defense because …bpl…the moment you mention a predator, or unexpected weather, or a first aid kit….you get a lot of posts that assume even discussing safety means one is not going outside out of fear. Because  I spend at least 14 hours a day outdoors ( in summer anyway) I want to be informed and prepared. Because of my trailcam hobby I mostly hear two distinct camps: folks mostly back east that once they hear about a cougar sighting in their county or even state…won’t go outdoors OR , folks mainly in California that dismiss any concern/ precaution. Where we live there is a very high concentration of big cats and I am glad that we are seeing more of them. I still up the hill every day. Most families here have changed their habits a bit and while up to ten years ago we all used to let our kids out in the woods without a grownup at age 8 or some even smaller, now we wouldn’t. Learning and adapting to a changing environment is the right thing to do.

    Overblowing a danger is silly but so is dismissing people that try and be smart about minimizing the chance of a bad encounter. I don’t seek approval for carrying a knife and a boat horn or for wearing boots: it works for me and that is enough.

    Now, a fear I have that does affect my backpacking alone are bears at night. I had one sniffing outside my shelter once and it terrified me. The ones I met on the trail did not worry me at all since they just wanted to leave. This particular fear of mine is greater than it should be and I know it is something within me that I should work out.

    Long post, sorry, but it might explain some of my short replies from earlier.

    #3412132
    D M
    BPL Member

    @farwalker

    Locale: What, ME worry?

    I also live in snake territory, two hours south of Valerie. We just removed a mojave rattler from my front yard last week. Our new 1.5 year old cow dogs found it at 9 pm in the dark by my barn and barked, but thankfully had sense enough to not get near it. It never rattled and was coiled flat when we reached it, looked very much like a cow pie. Three and a half feet long and darker colored than others I have seen, usually they are green or yellowish. It never moved and I kept a flashlight light on it while my husband went and got our thick gloves, the snake stick and bucket. He removes them from the airport runway and facilities where he works on a military base and they have a no kill policy so they catch and release, as we did, in the dark. We have a professional snake stick, it’s got a special flat tip that does not harm the snake and is nice and long and we used a five gallon lidded bucket to contain and transport. Also I was a professional herpetologist (and I like snakes) so both of us know how to handle poisonous snakes but what we did I would not recommend to other folks less experienced. We drove ten miles out to a remote location and released the rattler. It still never rattled until we put it in the bucket. That was the melloist mojave I’ve ever seen, usually they have a short temper.

    I hiked the entire Arizona trail last year in August SOBO. Did not see one rattler in 800 miles, but I was very very paranoid about it as I was in a hiking skirt and in chaco sandals half of the time. Since I am solo I am hyper aware of my foot placement and always tap the other side of logs and rocks before going over them. And the vegetation was hugely overgrown for much of the trail due to heavy rains. I always pitch my hiking poles ahead in stride pushing the grass and plants aside, but at a fast pace it’s a crap shoot. I tread not hard but just hard enough to warn snakes I’m coming, since their main sensory tools are vibration detection so perhaps my pole tapping and footfalls warn them. One way to be more aware is that if you see their prey, like lizards and small critters, there’s a good chance there is a snake in that area. Also water, everybody needs it, is a good place to find rattlers. Trails that are ledges that face south are also good places to find rattlers and southwestern slopes in the mornings and afternoon. Once while hiking, my husband accidentally cornered one, another mojave, which did strike at him and hit his jeans, a glancing blow thank goodness and he jumped off the trail away as it struck. That one did not rattle either before striking, I think the snake was just as surprised as Tim was. This is a yellow phase of Mojave, the one that struck at him.

    On my PCT hike this year I saw four rattlers, none of them rattled. All were crossing the trail just trying to get out of the way and minding their own business, but not rattling was kind of scary, no warning at all. By the way, we have some of the rarest and toxic rattlers in the world here on top of the mountains, above 7,000 feet and they have been known to come out to sun themselves in cold weather so we have to watch out for them also when most snakes are denned up. They are on the protected and endangered lists, they are Banded Rock rattlers and the Willard rattler. Both subspecies are small rattlers, rarely getting over two feet and the rock rattlers are brownish purple with moss green spots/diamonds and blend in well with the rocks here, and the Willard is colored exactly like fall orange oak leaves, reminds me of the eastern copperheads. They love to hang out near agave plants, where the young agaves grow in clusters on rock piles, so if you are ever in the Huachuca mountains watch for them. They rarely rattle also and if they do it sounds like a bug buzzing.

    #3412139
    Arthur
    BPL Member

    @art-r

    Stay on the trail!

    i ride and hike many days every week in 30,000 acres of the McDowell Sonoran Preserve in heart of the city of Scottsdale Arizona.  it is a Preserve, not a park, not a forest.  The goal is preserve what is there.  Staying on the trails is mandatory by law. I see snakes quite often except in the winter. Been rattled by the snakes and rattled personally when coming around a corner with a snake on the trail.   In the 25 years of the preserve’s existence, there has never been a snake bite of anyone on the trails.  NEVER.  The snakes feel you coming and leave and you see them if not.  Mostly I see the back end of the snakes as they are trying to get away from me.

    #3412152
    jimmy b
    BPL Member

    @jimmyb

    I mostly hear two distinct camps: folks mostly back east that once they hear about a cougar sighting in their county or even state…won’t go outdoors

    Where exactly did you hear this. LOL.  With all due respect to my W coast friends, remember the country was settled from E to W by us E coast scaredy cat weenies. LOL :)

    As far as rattlers go the closest encounter we have had was a Northern Pacific rattler looking to shed his skin right beside a short path to the base of El Cap. No rattle, no strike. Just wanted to be left alone I’m sure.

    #3412158
    Kattt
    BPL Member

    @kattt

    “I mostly hear two distinct camps: folks mostly back east that once they hear about a cougar sighting in their county or even state…won’t go outdoors

    Where exactly did you hear this. LOL. With all due respect to my W coast friends, remember the country was settled from E to W by us E coast scaredy cat weenies. LOL :)”

     

    fair enough ….or did the brave come west ? ;)

    I said that because I look up mountain lion news and pictures and when one is seen back east there is a lot of noise about the danger;  sometimes they’ll recommend that everyone in a county be on alert because of one cat sighting. I think it has more to do with over zealous authorities than the general population.

     

    #3412161
    BlackHatGuy
    Spectator

    @sleeping

    Locale: The Cascades

    @DM: Are you in Sierra Vista? I was stationed at Ft. Huachuca for a year. Really liked it there. Never had any rattlers in our yard, but plenty of hummingbirds!

    #3412166
    Kattt
    BPL Member

    @kattt

    Thanks for the info @farwalker !

    @art I did a bit more reading and all I came up with is Northern Pacific rattler .

    #3412169
    Nick Gatel
    BPL Member

    @ngatel

    Locale: Southern California

    I just wonder how often they don’t rattle when they are that close and if people hiking in dense snake areas tend to wear shoes other than trail runners.

    I have a theory…

    There is a section of the PCT I hike often, and have seen many rattlesnakes along the trail over the years. They never rattle. My theory is hikers kill those that rattle, so the non-rattlers servive. Selective evolution.

    I often hike cross country, especially in deserts. Trail runners and shorts, unless it is too cold for shorts, which means too cold for snakes. I see many more rattlesnakes in the mountains than deserts.

    I am uncomfortable with alligators and can’t sleep well in Florida or Louisiana when backpacking. No worry about black bears.

    #3412200
    Valerie E
    Spectator

    @wildtowner

    Locale: Grand Canyon State

    @zia-grill-guy / Gary — You said:

    Valerie, rattlesnake (as well as copperhead and water moccasin) venom is hemotoxic, which messes up your blood. Coral snake venom is the only neurotoxic venom in North America.

    Actually, Mojave rattlesnakes (territory now expanded to S. AZ as well as CA) have venom that is BOTH hemotoxic AND neurotoxic.  [Google it.]  And they tend to be one of the grumpier species…

    Because Kat lives in CA, it is possible that she may encounter a Mojave at some point (not quite sure where she lives/hikes).  Most of the other poisonous snakes in the US are hemotoxic only, as far as I know, but my original point in bringing up both types of venom was correct under the circumstances because of the Mojaves.

    #3412207
    HkNewman
    BPL Member

    @hknewman

    Locale: The West is (still) the Best

    I just camped with a woman recently envenomated by a juvenile rattler she mistook for a stationary stick on an open trail (her partner id’ed the snake slithering away –  she thought it was a thorn).  The bite didn’t hurt initially, according to her, but required a few weeks of hospitalization – one wk for anti-venom and another 2 to ensure platelet formation.  She said the emergency doctors want a medical evacuation in 2 hrs ideally as that’s when tissue damage starts.  My guess is the warm Feb got the adults mating resulting in more baby rattlers (mtn bikers have told me the baby rattlers will jump in front of their moving mtn bikes in previous yrs but that was Aug/Sept); thinking long pants/thicker gaiters and protective footwear helps if rattlers are going to be in problem numbers.

    #3412214
    jscott
    BPL Member

    @book

    Locale: Northern California

    It’s interesting…I’m fine with bears, and I even had one put his paw in the side of my tent once when I was inside. I just feel like I’ve come to an understanding with them, and I’ve been close to a lot of bears. But rattlesnakes…you know, I’m not scared** or anything, woof woof, but I hate them. I always seem to see them in the spring when they’re ornery. And I’ve been rattled at for sure. But then I hate snakes in general (sorry). It’s visceral.

    **I’m terrified.
    **mountain lions kinda unnerve me too, although I’m delighted to see them.

    #3412222
    Gary Dunckel
    BPL Member

    @zia-grill-guy

    Locale: Boulder

    Valerie, I apologize for my ignorance. I always thought that venomous snakes were either hemotoxic or neaurotoxic, but never both. I did google it, mainly to learn more about the Mojave rattlesnake. It seems like maybe they are one of the very few species (maybe the only one?) that has both venom enzyme types. Man, they seem like bad actors. I thought the fer-de-lance had an attitude (and they do), but your Mojave seems to rank right up there with them.

    #3412231
    Bean
    BPL Member

    @stupendous-2

    Locale: California

     

    Likely pointless, but while hiking with poles in high rattler probable areas. I try to strike any large rocks while placing the poles, in the hopes the increased vibration wave might warn the snakes I’m coming.

    _________________

    In my wife’s case, they couldn’t rattle if they wanted to. Last week she stepped on the rattle of one (juvenile) as it was trying to get off the trail. Best part, is when I warn her about a rattler she just stepped on, she freezes in place on the trail trapping me right next to this very unhappy snake that’s starting to coil.

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