Rainwear–replace WPB with waterproof?

Not answering your question, but

My WPB started wetting out so I washed it by hand, then sprayed gear aid revive durable water repellent on it while still wet, then let dry, then put in dryer to heat it up.  Then much better.

But wpb not perfect, maybe waterproof is better.  When I’ve tried that there was a lot of condensation inside

There is an argument for both a more-breathable WPB and a more waterproof layer, although it is challenging when trying to keep the entire load ultralight.

Ponchos are great for the combination of ventilation and weather resistance. A belt solves most issues with wind, and a sleeved “mountain poncho” solves all of them. Roger Caffin shows how to MYOG a mountain poncho, and explains their use in more detail, including photos.

Off-the-shelf versions included The Packa, Timmermade MegaZip Poncho, Altus Atmospheric, and 3FUL’s new front-zippered mountain poncho. Timmermade likes DCF because it is stiffer so that it stays off of parts of your body more than softer fabrics that drape more.

The Packa is perhaps the most sophisticated commercial poncho, and can handle just about any weather (similar to Roger’s Mountain Poncho). It weighs a few ounces more than the other ponchos listed here, but has more features. I understand that he has a new fabric coming soon, which should help with the weight.

There are some fully waterproof jackets with long torso zippers, such as Timmermade MegaZip Jacket and Rock Front Rain Hoody. LightheartGear and AntiGravityGear make waterproof jackets with pit zips. They are light and pack small, but anything worn under a pack gets pressed against your body, which cuts ventilation to zero in that area. They are best for occasional use. Ponchos are more comfortable for all-day use.

At the low end of the spectrum, I cut open emergency ponchos and close them KamSnaps or cords for flow-through ventilation, similar to this poncho mod. The result weighs 3.5 oz and costs less than $10 (1.5 oz with a $1 poncho). It’s pretty good for occasional use, although not as sophisticated as MYOG or the Packa. Price and easy availability make it a worthwhile experiment.

For legs, a rain kilt if your poncho is not long enough by itself. They go on/off quickly regardless of footwear, and are much more ventilated than pants. To me, rain pants are best for cold windy rain, like above treeline or in some particularly windy and cold places.

A kilt can be augmented with tall gaiters to give you full coverage while remaining easier and breezier than pants.

A long jacket can provide some of the same functionality as as kilt.  If it goes below the pants pockets, or as long as whatever kilt is.

Seeber did some testing of Paramo, where you have two layers and between them you’ll stay dry inside.  Paramo uses sort of heavy fabric.  Maybe two layers that have specific properties and are lighter would work.  That all is a theory to investigate rather than something you can use now.  But that may be an answer to the fact that WPBs and total waterproof have problems.

The OR Helium is honestly not worth it. Mine started wetting out within minutes in cold Sierra rain, even though it was basically new. OR’s only advice was to wash and reapply DWR, which wasn’t the issue.

I switched to a Lightheart Gear silpoly rain jacket and it’s been a big improvement. It has excellent pit zips. For me, venting works better than relying on membranes that inevitably fail.

The Rock Front (when available) looked attractive (weight, cost, huge side zips) but the lack of a front zip and only side zips was worrisome because it’s harder to vent the sides than the front with a pack on.

Now that the hype is dying down I’m starting to see reports that the lack of front zip can make it feel clammy.

If you can tolerate a poncho, the sea to summit poncho tarp is long enough to not need a kilt or pants and is very light.  I like mine.  Of course it’s a pain in high wind (a Bungie belt makes it tolerable in moderate wind) but I’ve come to accept that it stinks as a wind shirt (requiring more weight carry one), all that flowing material is a pain in camp.  Rain jacket is a much better wind shirt, but a terrible rain garment while highly active unless it’s too windy or cold for a poncho

Thank you all so much for the suggestions!  Some of the models I was not aware of.  I do need to keep the weight down as much as possible because I am not very big or strong and am getting kind of old, so I have to keep it light or else.  The Lightheart Gear one looks interesting.

Not sure about the poncho idea though.  I have a Gatewood I’ve used in the rain on day hikes but I found the poncho configuration hard to manage in the wind.  (I *know* the GW is holding its waterproofness because it doesn’t leak when being used as a tarp in overnight rainstorms.)

I don’t insist on being bone dry all over, and sometimes leave the rain pants at home.  So having the jacket be long is helpful.  Also trying not to pile up too many different garments (cf gaiters, etc.) in my kit.  After the last trip (day hiking not backpacking, but lots of cold rain) I followed the OR instructions and did the DWR restoration thing on the Helium.  Haven’t had it out in the rain yet since then, but judging from its weak performance back when it was new, I don’t really trust it.

Warbonnet makes rain jackets out of their tarp fabric (or wind jackets out of their hammock fabric) which have very long pit-zips. I never got around to nabbing one when WB was nearby, but if I had to go with a jacket, I’d try one of those.

Otherwise, echo what all above have said about ponchos. Been using them primarily for about 40 years. I recently grabbed a 3F UL poncho with sleeves, but wish I’d known one with a front zip was coming. That would have been really useful a couple of weeks ago.

I like my Gatewood as raingear because it’s conical and covers a bit more of the arms, and the center zip allows me to open and vent or toss it back, but of course it’s not raingear if it’s set up as a shelter.

Dustin, nice find on the zipped 3FUL!    The US 3FUL site doesn’t list them yet but they’re available through aliexpress.

Comparing the large 3FUL zipped poncho to the Sea to Summit poncho tarp:

• both 15D sil nylon
• 3FUL full zippered front, S2S vents through snaps on the side
• 3FUL has full sleeves, S2S shortie poncho “sleeves”
• S2S doubles as an emergency tarp
• 3FUL is 8.7 oz, S2S 7.4oz (the web site spec is wrong) including a 0.7oz diy bungie/toggle belt
• without hood, 3FUL 105cm long x 132cm wide, S2S 115cm front/130cm back long x 140cm wide (the web site spec is ridiculously wrong)
• A diy bungie belt cinches down all the material flaps but the belt design on the 3FUL will leave large sections near the pack to flap in the wind.  That can be fixed by cutting off the 3FUL belt and using a diy bungie.
• S2S $150 Canadian, 3FUL $50 Canadian

What has me holding off on the 3FUL and sticking with the S2S is that the 3FUL seems short both by spec and the aliexpress picture with the user wearing one with a small pack.  It’ll need at least a kilt where the S2S doesn’t, adding another 3.2oz for the 3FUL kilt, and it looks short enough in back with a pack that rain will might blow up the backside.

I’d want to read 6′ user reports before trying the 3FUL but if you’re closer to 5′, it looks like a nice find

In jackets, I know that Ryan recommends the Arc’teryx Beta SL, but the price is steeep

Another nice thing about a poncho is that you can use it as a ground sheet to give your tent some extra protection if you have to camp in a rough site.

@David D Someone else mentioned the 3F UL poncho with zipper above, but I did look it up and found it is one of the variants on their site. The one I have (without zipper) easily fits over a GG G4-20 pack. I think it went about down to my knees. Didn’t seem to bind or restrict movement.

The Rock Front (when available) looked attractive (weight, cost, huge side zips) but the lack of a front zip and only side zips was worrisome because it’s harder to vent the sides than the front with a pack on.

Now that the hype is dying down I’m starting to see reports that the lack of front zip can make it feel clammy.

Hi @DavidD – wondering what you mean? The Rock Front Rain Hoody has a nice front zip – just not a full length one. It’s really a “short cagoule.”

I tend to think the generation that came of age in WPB fabrics really doesn’t understand that any rain garment is a tradeoff, and you’re going to ultimately get at least partially wet one way or the other (from the inside or outside – take your pick).

I think the Rock Front is a solid design. I’d just prefer it was a true Cagoule like my Sierra Designs “Elite Cagoule.”

Hi Brad, I should have clarified, lack of full front zip.  Reports from section hiker, Justin and others are finding it clammy because the quarter zip doesn’t vent enough.

A quarter zip is better than nothing and it’s why I use the quarter zip OR Echo instead of the hoodie.   But think it would have been worth the weight to make the front zip full length because a non permeable rain garment needs as much breathing as it can get.  I’d pick one up if it had that.

I tend to think the generation that came of age in WPB fabrics really doesn’t understand that any rain garment is a tradeoff

I think people quickly realize the limits of WPB the first time they encounter protracted rain with a pack on!

The AliExpress page linked describes its similar-looking product as “water resistant.”  The original product (front zipper version not available, zipperless available only in size L) on the 3Ful site says “waterproof.”  Either not the same product, or description is off, or something.  At REI when I was there (retired for good 2 1/2 years ago) the more expensive nylon ponchos in the store were labeled “water resistant” while the cheap vinyl ponchos were “waterproof.”  I used to warn customers about that.  Years ago we used to carry a Sierra Designs (“Hurricane” I think?) jacket that packed into a little bag, that said it was “water resistant.”  It was cheaper than the standard WPB rainwear, and a whole lot of people bought them assuming they were rain jackets, especially since they were normally racked in the same vicinity in outerwear.  On the rare occasions when I worked in that department I was constantly cautioning people about that.  I learned from personal experience that those jackets were not useful in the rain because my husband bought one and then wondered why it didn’t keep him dry.

I’ve never considered using a rain poncho, nor a tent rainfly, nor a tarp shelter in any material, as a groundcloth.  I figure the odds of punctures when weighted against the ground would be too high, and affect future usefulness for rain protection.

The Warbonnet jacket looks interesting.

I might give up on the rain pants part, or just keep bringing the FroggToggs pants for that.  Often I don’t bring rain pants.  But I usually hike in a skirt, with base-layer leggings if warmth needed, layered with nylon dance pants over that for excess wind.  Legs dry pretty quickly and warm up more easily.  But on top, if my jacket wets out, it starts with wrists and arms as those are more exposed, then moves to shoulders, and only later maybe torso if it keeps raining.  To my mind that argues that it’s failure of waterproofness, not perspiration.

After last time the Helium leaked, this last July, when we got home I did the Nikwax routine (Tech Wash, then TX Direct, then dryer) but there hasn’t been enough rain to test it outside yet.

Hi Brad, I should have clarified, lack of full front zip.  Reports from section hiker, Justin and others are finding it clammy because the quarter zip doesn’t vent enough.

A quarter zip is better than nothing and it’s why I use the quarter zip OR Echo instead of the hoodie.   But think it would have been worth the weight to make the front zip full length because a non permeable rain garment needs as much breathing as it can get.  I’d pick one up if it had that.

I tend to think the generation that came of age in WPB fabrics really doesn’t understand that any rain garment is a tradeoff
I think people quickly realize the limits of WPB the first time they encounter protracted rain with a pack on!

Thanks for the response David. Assumed you meant FL zip rather than 1/4 zip, but wasn’t certain. Yes, agreed on the WPB/protracted rain/pack comment!

Coincidentally, Rock Front had a size S (Gray) Rain Hoody on their site this morning, so I ordered one. Will just have to see for myself :)