quilt. why am I freezing?

This would be easier to trouble shoot if you could share the brand/model, and some photos in use.

Some thoughts:

• Don’t wrap it under the pad – use the straps to hold the edges under your torso on top of the pad.  Wrapping under the pad causes the quilt to ‘tent’ out to the sides leaving large air gaps on all sides of you.  You want to minimized the air gap between you and the insulation.
• If your quilt lacks a differential cut – if both the upper and lower shell fabric are the same width – you could be compressing the insulation against your body if you pull it too tight.  This becomes more pronounced the thicker the loft.
• Consider creating some sort of foot box to better seal against drafts around your lower legs and minimize the air gap between your lower legs and the quilt – same reason as not tucking the quilt under your mattress.  Adding a draw cord to close the foot and velcro or a separating zipper will do the trick.  You could experiment w/ some loose hand stitches.
• You haven’t mentioned what you’re wearing on your head.  We lose a significant amount of body heat through our head.  Consider a quilted balaclava.  They’re small, light, relatively inexpensive and make a real difference.
• Try laying any upper body layers you’re not wearing to bed on top of your quilt.  Putting them inside each other may help keep them in place.  When things got a bit too cold for my bedding, my jacket has helped this way.  Basically, try to use everything you brought w/o actually putting it on, as you’ve said you find wearing all the layers uncomfortable.

If possible, get a thermometer of some sort and try to get a read on what temperatures you’re actually encountering.  A key chain thermometer isn’t bad to carry.  I bought an indoor/outdoor digital thermometer w/ a remote sensor (probe on a wire) that records min/max temps.  I put the unit inside my tent, and the remote probe outside and check it in the morning.  Relatively small, light, cheap.  I don’t take it on every trip, but use it to help understand how new gear works out.

Calorie dense dinner relatively high in fat, hot water bottle, dry layers only and wear your warm layers to bed.

My guess is that your quilt simply isn’t warm enough for you. I’m comfortable, if not hot, in my 20 degree quilt in the summer when it dips into the 50s at night. My wife would be freezing in that and needs a 10 degree quilt. We’re adding our down blanket to our bed today in our apartment. There’s a low of 52 degrees outside. Some people are just like that.

It’s also possible that the quilt is too narrow for you and creates drafts.

There’s no point going lightweight if you’re miserable.

Started with 6oz (167grs) Apex, as for ethical reasons I din’t want down.

I was freezing in August. Ok, it was a bit cold, but nowhere near the 0.

I’ve let them add a layer. Now it’s 267, 9.4oz.

I’m not sure what you mean by 6oz Apex.  I’m thinking you’re talking about and EE Revelation Apex quilt, but not sure what you mean by 6oz.  What is the temperature rating that you got and what was the outside temperature?

I agree with Rene, minimize dead space under the quilt that your body is having to heat, use a footbox, good headwear and socks, etc.

This is the chart from EE on the Revelation Apex which is the default quilt that people around here think of when thinking bout how warm a synthetic quilt is. Not saying it is represenative of your situation just the default thought process.

https://support.enlightenedequipment.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002285328-Revelation-APEX

Some thoughts / questions I had:

• Is the quilt tight up next to your body when you sleep? Dead air or moving air will strip the heat from you.
• Did you snug the drawstring up next to your shoulders?
• Do you wear a hat?
• Your pad is possibly contributing to your being cold. Nemo does not list an R-value for this pad. When winter camping I use a Thermarest all season (4.9R) and a Z-Lite (2.6R) at 7.5R I can sleep on snow with this and not feel the cold seeping up through the mat.
• How tired are you when you crawl in bed? Tired and worn out, going to be colder than normal.
• Hot water bottles, I use these when winter camping
• Chocolate coconut oil, handful of nuts, or other high fat foods will help you stay warmer I have a snack at bed time, I will also do push ups in the bag, or get up and do some jumping jacks or other exercise if really cold.
• Tent – from your other thread you are getting a new one. Think about the amount of air that will be heated and if it can escape easily? I have an MLD Solomid or a Tarptent Scarp that I like in the snow. I just got the Scarp and like the solid inner, it feels warmer then the MLD, but it is also much heavier.
• This link will get you to a couple of pictures I posted on the Solomid in use in the snow. https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/mld-mids-in-use/#post-3496800
• how is your hydration?
• What is the brand, weight , loft, dimensions of your current quilt?

All of these things can affect how warm you sleep. Everything from your tent, pad, quilt, under clothes, hat, jacket, food, hydration, physical condition, and the use of all of these things can contribute to you either being warm or cold.

Let us know.

Mike

I would pay a lot of attention to this response:

• Don’t wrap it under the pad – use the straps to hold the edges under your torso on top of the pad.  Wrapping under the pad causes the quilt to ‘tent’ out to the sides leaving large air gaps on all sides of you.  You want to minimized the air gap between you and the insulation.

If you have large pockets of air under the quilt, you use elastics to pull the quilt across the bottom of the pad, and you tend to move around a lot in your sleep then I am pretty sure you will be “pumping” hot air out from under the quilt on some movements, and then pulling fresh cold air under the quilt on other movements. You’re basically creating a bellows out of the quilt, and as you move you pump the bellows, moving air in and out from under your quilt.
If you can tuck the quilt between your body and the pad you’ll get rid of the bellows effect and be much warmer.

For a lot of people (myself included) the quilt concept works best down to a certain temperature… and then it doesn’t, not even with a much warmer quilt. If I knew exactly why, I would take steps to solve the problem, because the quilt experience is so vastly superior. But I suspect that too many factors come together for an easy solution to be found. So my own response is to resort to a bag if I’m expecting temps to fall beneath that crucial point. I can use the bag quilt-style if they remain higher… not as good as a true quilt, but it’s all I can think of.

If the problem only happens at low temperatures, I would FIRST suspect an inadequate mat. You lose a LOT of heat downwards.

Cheers

Agree with Roger…and perhaps the quickest/easiest/cheapest way to test out this theory is by adding a thin foam sheet on top of your current mattress.  There are many different places to find these.

Also, while I understand your desire to avoid down, it is vastly superior to synthetic in terms of warmth, weight, longevity and packability…it’s only negative is in situations where it is impossible to keep dry.  If you are a cold sleeper, and it seems likely your are, down may be the solution.

I had the exact same experience as you last year when I went ultralight.  I also had a Nemo tensor insulated 25 (L not R) and was using a down bag rated to 20F (men) 30F (women) (REI Flash Women’s Long 30F).  It did not get terribly cold, probably into the 40’s (F), but my feet were freezing.  I did some experimenting in my back yard on cold nights with different setups, and recorded the low temperature with a calibrated lab thermometer both inside and outside the tent.  The temperature got down to 30F outside the tent and 37F inside by my sleeping pad.  I found that even with a very heavy bag (Big Agnes Lost Ranger 15F) and the Nemo mat, I was still freezing, even though I was well within the rating of the bag.  Oh, and yes I had on a warm hat, my clothes and even a synthetic insulated jacket!

So after all that, I decided my pad was the weak link.  I bought an Exped Synmat UL 9 m, and the schnozel pump bag to inflate it.  I tried the Exped mat with the Flash bag, warm hat, and light base layer, and I was nice and toasty.  The temperature got down to 29F outside the tent that night and 34F inside.  So it was definitely not the bag!  The Exped mat is a few ounces heavier than the Nemo, but well worth the extra weight to keep from freezing!  You could possibly save weight on your bag/quilt this way, though.

As far as down goes, I hear you!  My wife is a vegan for ethical reasons mostly, and I’m 95% vegan for environmental/health reasons mostly.  Unfortunately, there are many places (mostly in Asia) that eat large quantities of duck because that’s what is easiest to survive on.  They pull the feathers and down off, and it is a waste product.  There are companies that collect this down and also comply with the Responsible Down Standard (RDS) to make sure the birds were not live plucked or tortured before being executed.  Both my wife and I feel that down from these sources is OK to use.  It would be better if those people did not eat the ducks, but if the down was not collected IT WOULD GO TO WASTE!  In this sense, NOT harvesting the down is worse, since the ducks lives are worth even less!  Many gear companies state whether they get their down from RDS compliant sources.

I agree with Craig. Most down is “ethically” harvested. That is, the meat is the primary product. The down and feathers are a byproduct similar to sawdust being a byproduct of the lumber mill. Mulch from the bark, particle board from wood chips and other offall, etc.

I would suggest you check your measuements. I believe that Dutchware only rates the 10.5oz stuff at 5F not 0F. This brings up two points. First, I would suggest this could be a survival rating, as much as 20 degrees off for comfort. A comfort rating of 32F might be more appropriate considering the thickness of the insulation. Secondly, a metric 0 degrees (0C or centigrade) IS a 32F rating. A lot depends on how it is rated, not the actual temperature you will be comfortable at. You didn’t really specify. But, specs alone indicate that it MUST be a centigrade measurement sine the total insulation (9.4oz) is a LOT less than that required for a comfort rating 0F quilt. The 6oz Apex requires some quilting, also. Likely in 12″ rows or 14″ squares or the like. Usually sewn through. Sewn through quilts are fine for down to 32F. If it is NOT quilted, then it might be incorrectly constructed. Either way will mean somewhat colder. A lot of evidence that suggests this is actually a 32F quilt.

Starting from the ground, I agree with Roger. You need more pad. I am an older person who likes my warmth at night. I use a three quarter length 3/4″ thick NightLite pad over a mid length Neo-Air when temps get down to 0C/32F. Coupled with a -7C/20F quilt, a down jacket over sleeping cloths, long knee length socks and a wool beanie I am comfortable much lower than that. Conduction from the ground, especially from mineral surfaces like ice, rock, sand and gravel will suck your heat fast.

Wrap or create a foot box similar to an EE Revelation. Have it extend to just short of your butt before opening up. This will keep your feet much warmer by eliminating a lot of the bellows effect as was noted above by Rene and others. Wrap the quilt around you and wear a hat/balaclava.

At 0F, you need these tricks…hell even at 10F you really want these tricks…probably better to call them a technique. Yes, they are not UL. i give up an UL at 32F feeling there is more to comfort in sleeping than carrying an extra few pounds of gear.

Anyway, trying to go much lower than 32F with a synthetic bag/quilt doesn’t make sense. At below 32F, water is not a problem. Otherwise, down is so far superior, it is nearly impossible to avoid. Water is the only downside to purchasing a good down bag. A 3#2-3#8 (50-56oz) down bag will easily take you down to 0F with a good R7-10 pad and some sort of enclosed shelter to break the wind. A space blanket will help about 7-10% (3-5F) and can be used under you, unless your pad has one built in…many do and using two won’t help. Over you, it can catch condensation, so be careful draping it over you. At 0F a vapour barrier next to your skin will help, though I always hated the clammy feeling and freezing cold when I got out of my bag for any reason… I opted to simply wear my down jacket to sleep in, personally. If you are looking for 0F/-18C temps, down is the way to go.

I’m not sure what you mean by 6oz Apex.  I’m thinking you’re talking about and EE Revelation Apex quilt, but not sure what you mean by 6oz.  What is the temperature rating that you got and what was the outside temperature?

Brad, 6 oz Apex refers to the weight in ounces per square yard of the insulation. On the EE chart Mike B linked to a couple posts down from you, it looks like EE rates 6oz/sq yd APEX at 30*F. I’ve heard EE is conservative with their ratings. I made a quilt with 6oz APEX several years ago expecting, from what I’d read from some other sources, that it would be good to about 20*F, but I think EE’s rating is closer to reality for me.

Lots of good advice on this thread.

Greg, I generally find that the EE ratings are fairly well stated though maybe a couple degrees optimistic. Don’t forget that they include a Hoodlum in their measurements for all quilts. Without this, or a hat, you can add about 5F to the actual temp rating.
Example:
I believe the Revelation was rated at 20F (published) but was tested to about 22F, including the Hoodlum. Adding 5F for it’s removal gives about 27F as the lower comfort temp or “sleep thru” temp. This is pretty close to my experience with them.

As others have said, look at your mat and attachment system. I struggle with them a little bit as I move around a lot and let heat escape if I’m not careful.

What sort of pads are people using when they test/judge the warmth of a given quilt?

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/en-ratings-and-r-values-how-do-these-align/

If we were to follow the same testing criteria as EN ratings, we should be using a pad with an R rating of 5 – 5.5

I know that my NeoAir XLite has an R=3.2, so I expect to feel colder than what my quilts are rated for.

Next on my purchase list is an R=5 pad for my wife when she comes backpacking with me, as she always complains of sleeping cold on her Women’s NeoAir Xlite pad.  The upgrade will be either a NeoAir XTerm or one of the insulated Exped models.

Thank you all so much for the suggestions! I feel very welcome!

Connection here in the mountains is horrible and I only have the smartphone, so I’ll not be able to quote properly.

The quilt is a Sestral Blanket from Astucas, similar in concept to the EE Convert or the GramXpert eLite (superior products in my opinion, but I didn’t know back then).
The loft is Apex, 8oz per square yard (in EU is measured in grams per square metre, so it’s 267). The total weight is +/- 1kg.

It’s 210cm long (which results slightly short once folded under the pad, because Astucas laceless design supposes that the quilt covers the head instead of closing around the neck). It’s 130cm wide on the bottom and 140 on the top. My torax girth is 128cm, my feet 26 cm long, I’m 168 cm tall, around 60kg, almost no body fat.

I’ll post a review of product and service as soon as I’ll feel able to be fair and objective.

I’ve chosen a totally openable quilt because I just can’t sleep closed in a bag or in a footboxed quilt. I feel very claustrophobic when I change position and the bag moves with me and wraps me.
I’m ready to be wrapped from time to time in colder nights, but I’m backpacking long term (at least one year, non stop) and I can’t sleep long term like I could in a one week excursion.
An uncomfortable sleep is not better than a cold one, so I need a solution which keeps me warm (at least till 32F, possibly a bit less) while using the quilt like a blanket folded and fixed under the pad, and without wearing all my clothes.

I must note that when I wrote 0° I’ve meant C, not F. I doubt I had more than a few nights reaching 0°C (I can’t know for sure, but I know that only once I had a frozen fly). So I’m talking of feeling cold above or at 0°C with a quilt supposedly rated for way below that.

Now, answers.
-no air gaps on all sides: got it, I’ll do that in emergency, but as said I cannot use a bag nor close the quilt between body and pad on a long term basis. Maybe could it be better having an even wider quilt, so I can leave it very loose, and it would fall around my body reducing the air gaps, avoiding compression, and yet giving me freedom?

-differential cut: interesting. I don’t think this one has got differential cut, but on both sides the fabric is very abundant, and I’d think it’s abundant enough to avoid compression.

-losing body heat through our head: I didn’t think it could be the reason, because I’ve never felt cold on my head till now. But following your post, in one very cold night lately, I’ve slept in fetal position completely under the quilt, just exposing my nose sometimes, to breath. And it helped. So, I’ll use a hat. It was planned for winter but I see I need it before.

-drafts around legs: my poor English. Can you explain what draft means in this context?

-Your pad: It’s not toasty, yes, and I feel it may not be enough on colder nights, but till now I’ve never felt the cold coming from below. I feel the cold on the part of the body facing upwards. Mostly upper legs (and kidneys, when I sleep on my stomach).

-how tired: well…, 6-8 hours walking every day, more or less 4km/hr, since one month, eating mostly bread and cheese, sleeping bad and few, consuming lot of energy in mental and emotional processes (this experience is being enormously cathartic)…
I am kind of tired, yes…

-Tent: I’m indeed thinking seriously about upgrading. You’re welcome to give me suggestions on my other thread!

-how is your hydration?: I’m generally drinking a lot.

-pumping hot air out from under the quilt on some movements: I’m sure that there is air flow from the head’s opening due to the laceless design, and I suspect it’s a big part of the problem. I don’t think the air is escaping from under the pad though. But why would that eventually be different if the quilt closes between body and pad?

-feet: I use 2 pair of socks and I’ve never felt cold on the feet till now.

-exped Synmat UL: I’ve tried it, comparing it with the Nemo, the Big Agnes QCore, the Thermarest and the Seatosummmit. Nemo and Sea were the most comfortable. The BA the less noisy. The Thermarest the most noisy and less comfortable. The exped left me doubting. I liked the stability given by the vertical baffles, and the huge thickness. But it didn’t feel quite right. I’ll think about what you say. Personally though, to save money and keep the comfort of the Nemo, I’d like to improve the R of the Nemo rather than changing Pad.

What do you all suggest to achieve this? Extra foam pad? Over or under the Nemo, and why?

-NOT harvesting the down is worse: I understand what you mean. I use this argument to explain why sometimes I eat meat when I’m invited and people have already cooked. I’m not causing that they buy more meat. They did it already.
But in this case, I’m sure a part of our money goes to the people who killed the ducks. So, they probably feel more motivated to keep killing even more ducks.
I’m definitely open to a further exchange of information on this subject, if we manage to avoid monopolizing the thread with an ethical discussion on animal rights.

-specs alone indicate that it MUST be a centigrade measurement sine the total insulation (9.4oz) is a LOT less than that required for a comfort rating 0F quilt: I must admit, you’ve really lost me. Can you explain?

-6oz Apex requires some quilting: You mean, the seams seen normally on down product, used to keep down in place? I’ve never seen that in any apex product and EE told me it’s not necessary (I thought it was). But, why only the 6oz?

Now, I’ve being thinking.

What do you think of an impermeable not breathable fabric placed above the quilt, only on very cold and humid nights, to prevent the cold humidity from penetrating the quilt and reducing loss of body heat?? Iwould not fold it under the pad, so the quilt could breath a bit from the sides.

I’m also thinking about a 3 layer system: a liner, a 4 oz Apex quilt, and a 8 Oz Apex quilt.
The liner would be to avoid dirt on the quilt. I’m trying a silky stretch of Seatosummmit (the thermolite was not comfortable). I put the mat inside the liner so the liner doesn’t wrap me. I’m fine…
The 4 oz quilt would be a GramXpert eLite fully zipped, usable as a bag on colder nights, with neck lace.
If I can return this Astucas quilt, the 8 Oz quilt would also be an eLite. This would allow me to combine the 2 quilts better, and even zip them together in a big bag when I’ll have company.
Having 2 quilts of different R it’s a more versatile system, maybe a bit heavier but useful in a long term 4 seasons travel…
Plus hat, better thermic underwear, better tent, eventually the impermeable fabric over the quilt on colder humid nights…

What do you think?
Do you see other possibilities, if I stick to the folded blanket system, and I refuse using down?

Hi Ugo

Some comments for you. All are based on many years experience by many people here at BPL.

-losing body heat through our head: I didn’t think it could be the reason, because I’ve never felt cold on my head till now.
Your head (brain) will strip all the heat from the rest of your body to keep itself warm. But your head loses a huge amount of heat compared to the rest of your body. Your head will stay warm while your feet die through frostbite. So yes, your head may feel fine – but it is killing the rest of your body.

-Your pad: honestly, I don’t think it’s the pad. It’s not toasty, yes, and I feel it may not be enough on colder nights, but till now I’ve never felt cold coming from below.
That is normal. You don’t feel the loss of heat that way. But you DO lose a lot of heat down to the ground, enough to make the night quite miserable. A common problem.

6-8 and sometimes more hours walking every day, more or less 4km/hr, for one month, eating mostly bread and cheese, sleeping bad
Going to bed hungry almost guarantees a poor night. More food needed.

an impermeable not breathable fabric placed above the quilt, in very cold and humid nights, to prevent the cold humidity from penetrating the quilt?
You lose water vapor (sweat) all night. The fabric layer is cold. Where do you think the water vapor will condense? And then it will drip down and wet your quilt.

Cheers

Well, not liking down, you have to pay the performance penalty for synthetic: Weight, compressability, durability. But, you don’t *have* to use the EE quilts (Revalation, Convert, perhaps others) as a bag or even half closed. They can be opened up, as needed.

Off hand I would say need:
1) more ground insulation
R3.2 is fine in summer at >40F and on loam… Try a cheap blue pad over what you are using to verify this. It should feel *warm and toasty” after a few minutes. If it doesn’t, you are loosing overall body heat to the ground. Especially in Lean-tos, sheds, huts, a wood floor can be quite cold. The air circulating under it will keep it cold all night making it the worst just before dawn. You want a minimum of R5. (2.5cm of enclosed air space -a balloon for example- will hold about an R1.0 just for reference.)
2) You need a hat/balaclava to cover your head. Roger is very correct in saying that you loose a lot of heat that way. Your body, by instinct, will preserve heat to send to your head. But, the point is: your whole body will loose heat in preference to keeping your head/brain warm. Starts with your fingers/toes, then legs/arms, then stomach. You cannot tolerate more than a few degrees of temperature change in the brain to really screw up your thinking…cold or hot. Keep your head covered.
3) You need more insulation over you if you refuse to be confined in what you have. It will take longer to warm up, but you should be OK with a -10C or -15C blanket.
4) No, you likely do not need differential cut with Apex, but a larger blanket will surely help. As you say, it will drape down naturally filling in many of the pockets and air gaps.

Answer 1) “specs alone indicate that it MUST be a centigrade measurement sine the total insulation (9.4oz) is a LOT less than that required for a comfort rating 0F quilt: I must admit, you’ve really lost me. I’ve no idea what you’re talking about. Can you explain?” OK. The first part was trying to decipher what you meant by 0 degrees…Celsius or Fahrenheit. The second part was attained by looking up the numbers from the EE site. By looking up the approximate temperature range (https://support.enlightenedequipment.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002285328-Revelation-APEX,) we note that temp rating for Apex6.0 was about 30F/-1C degrees. Remember that this includes a hoodlum which will add about 5F/~2C. (The *maximum* they even make as a standard is Apex8.0 at about a rating of 20F. But I have already explained that they are a bit optimistic, closer to 22F than 20F, and, they use a hoodlum for about 5F difference. Hence Apex8.0 is likely closer to 27F than to 20F. From your description of the frost, this is within a degree or so of what you experienced.)
Even with Apex10.5, the temp rating is only 5F according to RipstopbytheRoll… And Tim at EE cautions STRONGLY that a good (meaning high R value) pad be used in conjunction with the Hoodlum. He doesn’t even make an Apex quilt lower than that. (20F=-6.6667C) Nor does he really recommend using one below 45F-32F (~7C-0C.)

Answer 2) “-6oz Apex requires some quilting: can you define quilting? You mean, the seams seen normally on down product, used to keep down in place? I’ve never seen that in any apex product and EE told me it’s not necessary (I thought it was). But, why only the 6oz?” I ran across a note on quilting somewhere indicating that some larger lofting synthetic quilts require minimal quilting. Sorry, don’t remember where. With 2 layers, I would guess this is likely to your benefit anyway, just in overall durability. It will cut down on internal abrasion, minimally.

Well, down is a byproduct, as I say. We pay for the sorting, processing (washing, drying) anti-septic/anti-bacterial treatments it MUST have to make it fit for sale. Food is the primary interest in that industry. What would you do with the excess down/feathers if not sell it? (Assuming everyone were to stop eating meat and meat products, as much as 20% of the worlds 6 billion would go hungry. Not feasible.) And feathers/down are relatively slow to rot and return nutrients to soils.

quilting – first, you have to sew all the way around the perimeter through face fabric, insulation, inside fabric.  Otherwise the insulation will slide inwards at places leaving cold spots on the edge.

In addition, you sometimes have to do rows of stitches in between, like maybe a grid 6 inches square.  Maybe with thicker loft, you can space out this quilting more.  Some synthetics like Apex don’t require this at all.  Some synthetics like Primaloft Gold are a little warmer for the weight, but require more quilting.

Yeah, you need a hat.  I use fleece down to about 0 C, an Apex hat below this.

I’ve tried synthetic (Apex) for cold temperatures but it gets so heavy, and it’s bulky when packed.  So I switched to down, but I can see your reluctance to do that.

I also turn over a lot while sleeping–or trying to. I’ve learned how to do this in a bag and not get tangled up. It’s very possible. However, I feel snug and cosy in a bag. You feel claustrophobic, which may be a deal killer.

I hate sleeping bags and liners because they move when I move and they wraps me and I feel claustrophobic.

Check out the Nemo sleeping bags, they are made very wide. A Nemo bag (NEMO Rave 15) has solved the problem of claustrophobic mummy bag for my wife.

The bag we got is 650 down, and the amount of insulation is generous. The lower grade down, I think is generally warmer (harder to compress). The bag is heavy, but super warm and has a lot of bells made for comfort. This essentially solved the problem for my wife. Oh, the bag is 15F and 1.5kg or so. Not ultralight by any means, but bomber. We had a 15F night and she was warm.

***

I only tried a synthetic bad once, at it’s temp rating and it was freezing cold. I think down is generally overrated, but for sleeping bags it’s hard to replace.

Not sure I believe in quilts. Too many frozen nights out in the field I’d be sleeping with a tiniest hole for my nose or hidden inside completely. It gets cold enough that my face would get cold, if left uncovered. I would not risk to try and sleep in something that does not close off entirely with my body inside :) YMMV, of course.

An update: I’ve corrected my posts about the Oz of my quilt.

It’s 8 Oz per squared yard, not 9.4.

I hadn’t taken into account that in EU we measure with grams per squared metre, so 267 grams are, yes, 9.4 Oz, but 267 grams per squared metre are 8 Oz per squared yard.

And, my Nemo is also failing. The valve leaks air, I wake up with a partially deinflated mat.

Either I’m unlucky or its the sign I must change mat…

Not easy while in mountain.

Question: if the problem is the air around my body, for using the quilt like a blanket instead of closing it around me, wouldn’t this happen also with a down quilt?