Question for fabric specialists…re Gore Tex specifically.

If i’m correct, that would be a 2L GTX-fabric. The mesh lining is there mainly to protect the membrane.

In theory, if you would cut out the mesh lining, the membrane would wear down a lot faster trough abrasion. I also doubt it would be more comfortable. But the latter is personal, off course.

2,5L-fabrics add a really thin layer (more like a film, actually) on the inside for protection, while 3L-fabrics add a thicker layer on the inside.

So… to answer your question: your membrane should wear out faster if you cut out the liner.

Thanks. Appreciate your response.

Having slept on it, I’m thinking that the lining being largely independent…well, it moves around a bit inside the jacket, rubbing on the membrane. I have to wonder how much additional wear there’d be if it were not there and the membrane was rubbing on my fleece instead….?…….

So, is it a reasonable certainty that the liner is there for protection? If it helps at all, it’s a Schoffel.

liner is to prevent oil and sweat from getting into the membrane, which will then delaminate

it can double the lifetime

it does make it a little warmer, because it adds an air layer, and if water condenses on the membrane surface, the liner will keep it from touching you so it won’t feel so wet

don’t cut out lining : )

it’s worse at shoulders and head, because the fabric is pushed against you, so if you left the lining there, it would be better than cutting it out completely

Thanks, Jerry. I’m still trying to wrap my mind around this….probably because I’m wanting to cut it all out.;-)

To me (and I’m not trying to be argumentative), this inner liner is really nothing more than an additional lightweight jacket inside of another. Other than being sewn at the perimeter and cuffs, the rest of this mesh/nylon inner jacket (lining) is free floating.

That said, being this liner is attached, it acts to protect. That’s what I’m hearing. But, lets just say I unattached it, and donned it first then donned the GoreTex shell, the liner suddenly doesn’t protect anymore?

Other than eliminating, or perhaps minimizing, some wear in the sleeve areas from sliding on and off, I can’t really see the lining doing any more to protect the GoreTex than what I’m wearing prior to putting on the jacket. Now, if what I was wearing was something abrasive, it would be a different story. But I’d be putting the main shell on over something soft…like plush fleece.

Hope I’m making sense here. Again. Not trying to argue. Just trying to figure out to what extent the lining is truly going to protect the Gore Tex. I understand the theory. And it is sound. I’m just not convinced it’s a lot more than theory though.

The way I understand it and Jerry/Richard and others may correct me, but the original version of Gore Tex was 2L and it quickly became soiled with body oils and deteriorated.  The 3rd layer and the PU inner in the 2.5L GT is to protect the membrane from body oils.

If you cut the liner out it could shorten the life of the jacket due to degradation of the membrane by your body oils.

Thanks, Brad. Makes sense. However, how would the liner stop the oils any differently or better than the layers a person is wearing? I can see the liner as one more barrier…but even then, it would seem that it would become saturated at some point, holding the oils right against the GT. I guess that’s reason to wash the GT with some sort of regularity.

But, if there’s no liner, and assuming the person is wearing fresh to somewhat fresh tops, and rinses the inside of the GT jacket out every few uses….I would think that would be as, if not more, effective at keeping oils from damaging the GT than having a liner inside and only washing the thing on occasion.

But, I’m just thinking out loud here….and I could be missing something…or many things. ;-)

A 2-layer version of GTX is still being used today and that liner will not prevent sweat and oil from reaching the GTX-membrane. Not that that it matters because therefor serves the PU-layer.

The liner in the 2-layer construction is there to protect the membrane and makes it all also more ‘wearable’ (supple) than the stiffer 3-layer construction.

I have a 2.5 layer eVent jacket with no lining.  EVent is supposed to be less robust than Goretex, so this is only somewhat applicable.

I always wore shirt inside, yet it delaminated at shoulders and hood.

That leads me to think a lining will protect the membrane from sweat and oils.  And that’s what I’ve read that others have said.  I would think that even a mesh lining would offer protection, because the sweaty, oily shirt won’t touch the membrane.

But, there’s some supposing there so take it how you wish.

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Sure, the presence of a liner will make it harder but will not prevent it completely (the majority will be already be evaporated).

I’m not sure what materials these two jackets have but presumably some type of waterproof breathable. Mine, a Marmot, with taped seams a supple material, and no liner, is terribly delaminated on the hood. It diminishes towards the bottom. My wife has a Patagonia jacket with mesh lining on the body and nylon in the arms. Taped but with a stiffer material than my Marmot. It is delaminating more than the Marmot. When she pulls it off, there are flakes all over her shirt that look like dandruff.

Not sure that this has much to do with my questions but thought I’d mention it.

The mesh liner is a HEAVIER and CHEAPER way to make a GoreTex fabric. It takes the place of the inner membrane of what should be a 3-layer sandwich. The result is usually called a 2-layer fabric. Neither is (significantly?) inherently better than the other except for the weight and price. Gore may lie blatantly about the “waterproof breathable” part, but otherwise have got their s#!t together on making the fabrics, so if they think an inner membrane (or mesh) is needed then I would tend to believe them. Their licensing is designed to prevent shoddy manufacturing using their fabrics, to maintain their reputation. So might their fabrics be over-built? Yes, of course. But knowing how fragile PTFE membranes can be (I used to use them at my job) I would tend to believe them.