Patagonia Nano Air Light Hoody Review (First Look)

[Ryan Jordan]

Companion forum thread to: Patagonia Nano Air Light Hoody Review (First Look)

This Patagonia Nano Air Light Hoody Review takes an first look at a lighter iteration in the popular apparel category of “active insulation”.

[Richard Nisley]

Replace the 200 weight fleece with a 100 weight fleece and you have this. See https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/99527/

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Exactly what brand or generic type of insulation is used in this garment? Is it like a thin Climashield fiber?

A UL sewn-through down hooded jacket with Dri-Down type treatment could insulate as well but not be as breathable due, as you said, to its tightly woven down-proof shell.

So that leaves us with the Nano Air Light Hoody – synthetic fill and more air permeability, a good combination. Not as small a stuffed package as down but better than fleece, and likely lighter.

My only caveat is that this hoody not be filled with Primaloft. I’ve had bad experiences with its lack of loft retention.

[Ken Thompson]

From the website

“Light, yet durable 100% nylon ripstop shell and plain-weave liner offer generous mechanical stretch and exceptional breathability, with a DWR (durable water repellent) finish
Revolutionary 60-g FullRange™ insulation warms and stretches; combined with the shell and liner, this creates a jacket with generous mechanical stretch and unprecedented air permeability (40CFM)
Iconic Nano Puff® brick quilting in the side panels, articulated patterning and other quilting details improve shape and durability
Stretchy hood with binding easily pulls on or off, even when jacket is zipped
Center-front zipper has wicking interior storm flap and zipper garage at chin for next-to-skin comfort
Two handwarmer pockets and two chest pockets are zippered, welted and low-bulk to wear comfortably with a harness or pack
Stretch binding at the cuffs and a dual-adjustable drawcord hem seal in warmth
Shell: 1.3-oz 20-denier 100% nylon ripstop. Lining: 2-oz 50-denier 100% nylon plain weave. Both shell and lining with mechanical stretch and a DWR (durable water repellent) finish. Insulation: 60-g FullRange™ 100% polyester stretch insulation
385 g (13.6 oz)
Made in Vietnam.”

[Armando S]

Just saw this review from the BPL email.

Question for Richard: do you mean replace the 200 weight fleece VEST with a 100 weight fleece VEST? Also, it is my understanding that Polartec 100 weight comes in 2 common weights: a lighter weight at ~160g/m2 and a heavier at closer to 200g/m2. Which weight is more appropriate?

In other words:

• Capilene 4/Thermal Weight power grid baselayer, plus
• 100 weight vest
• UL wind shirt like ’12 Houdini, current Squamish, etc

Roughly equals the above base layer + nano air lite in warm & breathability?

[Richard Nisley]

Yes

[Karl Kerschner]

Ryan, I’m curious what combination of wind and temperature conditions is the sweet spot for you when wearing the combination of:

• Base Layer: Patagonia Merino 2 wool long sleeve crew (6.0 oz)
• Cold Weather Trekking Layer: Patagonia Nano Air Light Hoody (10.2 oz)

 

The design concept of “active insulation” with just the right amount of higher air permeability seems very helpful to me; something we’ve been seeking for a long time.

Thanks!

[Justin Baker]

I see this jacket being comparable to a breathable windshirt (around 35 cfm) combined with a light 100 wt fleece. Less versatility but less fuss because its one layer. Does that sound about right?

I also like the idea of air permeable insulation for standing in front of a big fire and drying out, packrafting comes to mid. I’ve thought about cutting the sleeves off a nano air to use packrafting.

[Bill Wang]

Instead of 60-g weight and 40CFM, on the website I see for the “light” version:

“Using a new 40-g weight, our revolutionary FullRange™ insulation warms and stretches; combined with the shell and liner, this creates a hoody with excellent mechanical stretch and unprecedented air permeability (70CFM)”

Which I think is about 2 times the permeability as my current windshirt – Acrteryx Squamish.

I’m ordering one today and plan to test it in colorado (4-pass loop) next week.

-Bill

[Russell Hann]

Like Karl I’d be interested to know the temperature range of the base layer and nano top. My set up for down to about 22f is a base layer, R1 hoodie and Rab Vapour Rise lite over the top. Be interested to know how it compares to this. It would be good to have something suitable for when it gets colder than this which i can wear instead of the VR top.

 

Thanks

[Christopher Palmer]

I have the 60g Nano Air jacket.  I have found that the sweet spot for it to me is between 40°F-20°F with up to 20mph winds worn over a mesh short sleeve poly t-shirt and a mesh long sleeve poly t-shirt.

[Ryan Jordan]

It’s just starting to get cold again so I’ll include commentary on the effective usable temperature range when we release the full review, which should be next month.

For now, I would estimate that it’s similar to 100 weight fleece and a wind shirt. It’s definitely more comfortable (that is, better in warmer conditions) than 200 weight fleece and a wind shirt. But still, the Nano Air Light is more breathable than any wind shirt, so the comparison is hard and subjective at best.

[Jim Sweeney]

Curious why the Nano Air Light is more expensive than the heavier (more material?) Nano Air.

To answer my own question — looks like the Nano Air is being discounted.

 

[Bill Wang]

Jim, how can you tell the regular nano air hoody is being discontinued?  I see a few colors/size combinations on sale at the patagonia website for $209 but the regular price is $299 which is more expensive then that “light” version (which is listed at $249).

[Oliver Nissen]

The newsletter said “these are garments that have high loft insulation (usually synthetic), but are shelled and lined with a new type of highly air permeable stretch woven fabrics.”

I’m being a little pedantic, but the fabric tech hasn’t changed at all as far as I’m aware. The big change has come from innovations in the manufacture of ‘non-wovens’ – i.e. the polyester insulation (which I’ll call wadding) and wadding scrims – the tissue-like carrying-backer or containing-lining that wadding is supplied with.

So-called ‘fiber migration’ or ‘fiber percolation’ has been the biggest problem and constraint with wadding. This is where the fine ends of fibers poke through the face and lining fabrics. This is a greater problem for short staple fiber wadding than the continuous filament fiber, but I believe (by someone may correct me here) the market has shifted to garments using either purely short staple or a hybrid wadding that mixes short staple fibers and continuous filaments. (Consumers prefer the softer feel and greater warmth-to-weight ratio of short staple, over the durability and greater loft-retention of the continuous filament qualities.)

Historically, this percolation problem has either been solved by using down-proof tight-weaves, or by using the containing/backing scrim to act as fiber-proof layers. Technical Outdoor companies would go with the former option – cutting the weight of the scrim out of the equation – but making the handling and sewing job quite a bit trickier at the factory. Meanwhile, Barbour’s quilted jackets (for example) would be quilted onto  a soft non-fiber-proof shell fabric, with the wadding still sandwiched between its layers of scrim (I can say this for certain – I’ve visited their quilters!)

I think a question is begged. With these new more air permeable shelled jackets, has the percolation problem been solved through a clever hybridisation of short staple and long filament wadding (outer layers of percolation-resistant long filaments containing a core of short staple fibers), or has it been solved by some innovative new containing scrim – one that is now stretchy (“FullRange™” scrim?) Or perhaps percolation is prevented by some other novel means.

This isn’t a purely academic argument. If there is reliance on using scrim here, then what this jacket amounts to is an air-permeable outer shell, with a less permeable scrim – out of sight, but just behind. In other words, the advantage of a more air-permeable shell may have been negated and talk of “more breathability” would thus be a bit of a marketing con!

I’ve not been following the tech developments with wadding closely for the last five or so years, so I can’t say what is going on here. Does anyone care to tear open one of these jackets and let me know whether there’s scrim in there or not?

[Brian Lindahl]

Great question, Oliver. Based on my breath test experiments with these garments, they are indeed actually much more breathable, regardless of whatever scrim (if any) is being used. Whether the ability to use a breathable face fabric is due to better scrims, or refinements in the insulation material, itself, I can’t answer. I too would like to know the answer to this.

Anyone?

Also, I find it quite funny that several companies are still using non-breathable face fabrics along with the new insulation Polartec Alpha – I have a new piece with me, here, that does this. Talk about putting lipstick on a pig. I can’t imagine this has any benefits over the older insulations (that have a better warmth-to-weight ratio). As always, if you care about breathability, always rely on the breath test (or real testing equipment if you have it). Ignore manufacturer’s claims about the materials used.

[Brian Lindahl]

Also, I’d be curious to know how this garment compares to something like a Patagonia Micro-D Fleece Pullover (8oz) and a highly breathable windshirt (4oz). Yeah, it’s about 2oz lighter, but it seems there’s a HUGE loss in versatility, since you can’t use the windshirt without getting the insulation as well.

I find that even in the depths of winter, here in Colorado, I don’t really need more than a baselayer and a highly breathable windshirt (more softshell than windshirt). If I do, it’s because of extreme winds, and then I want something completely windproof. After getting a highly breathable windshirt, I can’t remember the last time I was active and using (or wanting to use) a midlayer. Maybe it makes sense when not being as active such as walking downhill? I usually am ski touring in the depths of mid-winter.

[David Chenault]

Alpha et al. are very different than Primaloft, Climashield, Polarguard, and so forth. Far more structural integrity within the insulation itself, ergo batting/scrim/whatever is not needed. Alpha has layers not unlike Climashield, but the individual fibers are far thicker, and the layers stick together easily.

Rab’s new Alpha Direct jacket uses 120 g/meter Alpha and has no lining at all. It uses the insulation as an even higher-loft sort of fleece.

I don’t see much overlap between Alpha and fleece. Fleece manages moisture (esp external moisture) better and due to being separated from the shell is more versatile. Alpha-insulated layers are less fussy than separate garments, and fantastic for cold weather stop and go stuff. Skiing, climbing, hunting, etc.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

So just what is this “revolutionary ‘Full Range’ insulation”? Very interested to know if something like this has sleeping bag applications.

[Brian Lindahl]

“Rab’s new Alpha Direct jacket uses 120 g/meter Alpha and has no lining at all. It uses the insulation as an even higher-loft sort of fleece.”

I looked up this piece, and the marketing material says they use Pertex Microlight? (which incidentally isn’t very breathable in my experience)

“I don’t see much overlap between Alpha and fleece. Fleece manages moisture (esp external moisture) better and due to being separated from the shell is more versatile. Alpha-insulated layers are less fussy than separate garments, and fantastic for cold weather stop and go stuff. Skiing, climbing, hunting, etc.”

For the stop and go stuff – if you’re stopped – whats the benefit of having breathable insulation? For example, if I’m sitting around having lunch on a ski day or belaying my climbing partner, I’d prefer to have a windproof belay-style parka rather than a highly breathable piece?

To me, Alpha pieces seem to make more sense in extreme cold in when you’re mildly active. Even in -15F degree temps, when I’m very active (ski touring), I can’t say I’ve needed anything more than a fleece and a softshell when on the move. Softshell in the pack when out of the wind, softshell on when in the wind. I can’t think Alpha would be an improvement here. It either would be too wind resisitent, or not wind resistent enough – assuming it sits halfway between fleece and softshell in terms of wind resistance.

As I mentioned, it seems like it makes more sense for mildly active activities. Like flat-ground hiking/walking, downhill skiing at the resort, etc.. Something where you need more warmth than a fleece would offer, and either don’t need a highly wind-resistent layer (hiking in the woods), or are trying to make use of a second wind resistant layer (resort skiing). That said, I prefer an insulated shell for resort skiing on colder days, since venting the shell immediately bypasses the insulation, sending the cold air right to a thin base layer for immediate cooling.

[Rick M]

I have a Westcomb Tango that uses Alpha 80wt?, Pertex 30D Equalibrium for the shell, and what looks identical to Marmot’s DriClime for the liner. It weighs about ~500g in Large. I was a skeptic too when Alpha was first announced.

Logically it just doesn’t compute when compared to fleece and windshirt. But its got serious mojo and it works marvellously in the same way Cap 4 EW just works, not for hiking but done in a day mountaineering, scrambles and skiing. Very useful temperature range and barely holds moisture so even if I get a little hot the sweat just wicks away. But it is too heavy to take on multiday treks.

[James holden]

If yr on a climb it saves quite a bit of time to not have to pull out and out on a belay jacket at every belay

if you have a single garment that works decently when climbing, you simply unzip it mosly when climbing then zip it up at the belay

contrast this with

• at belay hang pack, take off windshirt, pull out fleece, put on fleece, put on windshirt …. Dont drop or let anything get blown away
• when ready to climb, take off windshirt, take off fleece, put back in windshirt, stuff fleece in pack …. Dont drop or let it get blown away

in addition with single wearable jackets the leader doesnt need to carry a pack, or carry it stuffed or bandolier style … Not to mention it doesnt interfere with the shoulder slings which all climbers carry on longer climbs

after dealing with “faff” a few times you find ways to minimize it  … Its a time killer at belays

also unlike most hiking, taking off gear, especially packs is mich more risky on climbs ….there may not be nice flat ground, if any to put it

;)

[Oliver Nissen]

Good thinking Brian,
Immediately after posting it occurred to me that such a breath test would be a non-invasive and conclusive test.

FYI Pertex Microlight is a wide product range distinct from their Quantum (high-end light stuff) by being lower priced (not neccssarily lower quality – just cheaper to weave!) It comes in all sorts qualities, some more air permeable than others.

Some qualities might be PES – I’m not up to date on this – polyester is not as moisture permeable. This is info that should be provided on the side-seam label and is something to look out for, particularly when the fabrics in question are windproof and you’re concerned about “breathability” (or whatever your chosen fancy term is for clamminess & its avoidance!)

For me the real innovation will – as most are- come from material science innovation – if crimped fibers (like those used to create “mechanical stretch”) can be made to crimp in the cold to create a “tighter weave” and block wind, but then under moderate warming straighten out to open up for greater air permeability, that would solve the problem you identify with as-you-put-it, “the stop and go stuff.”

I’ve only seen sort of temperature-reactive concept being marketed for waterproof breathable membranes. It’s been on the market for a while and I’ve heard no feedback on it’s efficacy: http://www.schoeller-textiles.com/en/technologies/c-change.html

But as you say, there’s always venting… give me sleeves I can role up well above my elbows and generous use of zippers!

[Oliver Nissen]

Hi Eric. The ‘revolutionary’ aspect of this particular wadding is its stretch (and all important stretch recovery.) It’s from a particular Italian supplier and will be sold under different names by different brand marketing teams! I think there are few other wadding producers who have fiber-migration / fiber-percolation resistant qualities – and as I mentioned earlier – some or all maybe relying on the carrier scrim being sewn into the jacket to achieve this.

On jackets, stretch insulation is really a climbing mobility feature. I’m not convinced of the technical value of such stretch when you’re wanting to get the most warmth from of your insulation – as in a sleeping-bag scenario. The following reasons:

When a any stretch shell material actually extends, it only does so when the bend of a knee – for example – has put so much tensile force across the fabric that any wadding’s loft beneath will have been completely flattened. Here’s a crude cross-section sketch:

If stretch wadding were used in conjunction with a stretchy differential-cut lining – and paired with a loose fitting shell (for the aforementioned reason) – the wadding may hug the lining more closely than in the case of standard wadding. This might be marginally more snug than a normal synthetic bag. Nothing revolutionary there…

And on that thought, what also comes to mind for me are Mountain Equipment’s* discontinued stretch quilted sleeping bags – I think they were the ‘SleepWalker’ & ‘FireWalker’. At ME’s factories there will have been a tricky quilting job; strategic quilting lines (I recall perhaps twice at knees and twice at chest) will have required sewing simultaneously through shell, insulation chamber, an extended elastic tape, and through the lining. Once sewn, the elastic would relax and all layers would simultaneously scrunch up creating areas where the bag was more hugging. It’s scrunched (technical term here is “gathered”) appearance wasn’t very attractive and the ‘cold spots’ where the quilting ran all the way through the layers is a waste of good insulation. I’ve never used them.

*The UK brand, not MEC!

[David Chenault]

The Microlight is the shell fabric, and non-calendered so quite different than the Microlight used in the old Montane Litespeed (for example).

The benefit of Alpha for stuff like ski touring is how well it evaporates moisture. For backcountry skiing you’ve got baselayer or baselayer/windshirt for the skin up, then a light synthetic jacket for the ski down. Alpha moves the inevitable sweat better and keeps you drier over the whole day.

If you’re stopped for a while in high winds you will need an additional windproof layer, at minimum.

[Author]

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