Pack Organization

Hi Bonzo

My wife had the same complaint, of never being able to find what she wanted.
Her solution, which seems to work very well, was to use a slightly larger and wider pack. The loss of XUL was made up for by the far greater convenience.

Cheers

+ 1 to “slightly larger and wider pack.”

You also need a pack to which you can attach ice axe, crampons, helmet (when you are not wearing it), perhaps also snow shoes, etc.  On the way down/out, I also like to carry my wag bag on the outside of my pack.  If you are doing avalanche awareness, the pack needs to carry a snow shovel. And at some point the guides will pass out transceivers.

The guides often have the clients carry common gear in addition to food like ropes.

I’m using a 60+15L pack, so I have…well, almost enough room.  The axe is out of the way out the back, and the helmet seems to be happy right under the lid (probably going to have it on a lot of the time anyway).  Booties, sleeping bag and sleeping pad are in the bottom.  Main food storage is right above that, with layers right above the food.  Water is right next to my back, and the shells/poofy are close to the top.  Boots are in there, somewhere…but I don’t have a lot of the other stuff even on-hand to start organizing.  Harness and hardware are in the top pocket, but I’m not sure about rope/shovel/beacon/stuff yet.  I thought about moving the poofy to the back pocket because it’s something I may need to access, quickly, but then I run out of dedicated crampon space.  And here’s the funny part; the pack has a side-zip and I still can’t seem to get everything in a logical place.  Arg!

When I did a three night/four day training course with summit attempt on Mt Shasta, I was able to fit everything into my old but trusty Osprey Aether 60 liter which is probably right on the edge of what is doable.

My water was on Nalgenes in the water bottle pockets since I have had a hard time keeping my reservoir tubes from freezing. The bulkiest item in my pack was my synthetic puffy which takes up more room than my 0 degree down bag.

A lot of the bulky stuff gets strapped to the outside which the Osprey is good for since it carries well and has lots of attachment points and a large “shovel pocket.”

I think the problem is just that, as you’ve found, there is almost no right order for things. As soon as you relegate something down the packing order a little, that turns out to be the exact thing you need next, buried under a load of other items.

When I’ve found most helpful honestly is sacrificing some weigh and going for a more traditional pack. Ultralight packs seem to follow a very predictable layout with one main compartment with a roll top, a front stretchy or net pocket, and two side pockets for water etc. While this is fine for everyday trekking, it makes it hard to organise the extra items needed for climbing or alpine work.

While I have an Atom pack that I use for most trips, in the winter I use a Gregory Baltoro. While it is heavier, the bigger size is much better for the extra layers and thicker clothing, and the much wider range of pockets and places to put things makes it much easier to be organised and keep all the important stuff to hand. For me it’s worth the weight penalty for those trips.

When I did a three night/four day training course with summit attempt on Mt Shasta, I was able to fit everything into my old but trusty Osprey Aether 60 liter which is probably right on the edge of what is doable.

That tells me that I should be okay with this pack for a three-day thing; I actually have a pretty minimal kit and it physically fits – even including some group-gear analogues – but it’s just not organized well.  I guess I’m trying to figure out a good starting point for things, so I don’t have to do a huge reorg/repack at gear-check time.  Biggest issues right now are the helmet and boots…and crampons.  I guess the latter are gonna have to go in the outside pocket; I don’t think that I want them rattling around, poking things.  The helmet and boots are just going to be awkward no matter what, it seems, until I don’t have to carry them on my back anymore.

I think the problem is just that, as you’ve found, there is almost no right order for things. As soon as you relegate something down the packing order a little, that turns out to be the exact thing you need next, buried under a load of other items.

There may not be an ideal, one-strategy-fits-most approach, here.  Usually I just think about the order in which I’m going to pack and unpack things at camp, and I keep my weather gear and some snacks accessible for use as-needed while on the trail…but I’m also not pulling out alpine gear as-needed, heretofore.  Rope, climbing gear, helmet, etc… don’t usually have to deal with that stuff.

Troubleshoot this: I guess I can still keep the shell/poofy layers on top, boots underneath that for when it gets snowy, and then the tent: that’ll get me quick access to what I need on the approach.  Maybe one water bottle somewhere that I can get to it (don’t have bottle carriers).  Under that can be main food/water storage, more layers, etc.  Sleeping system in the bottom, because once the tent is up I can easily repack and reorg stuff after dinner.

When I’ve found most helpful honestly is sacrificing some weigh and going for a more traditional pack. Ultralight packs seem to follow a very predictable layout with one main compartment with a roll top, a front stretchy or net pocket, and two side pockets for water etc. While this is fine for everyday trekking, it makes it hard to organise the extra items needed for climbing or alpine work.

My winter pack is the antithesis of ultralight; six pounds of antithesis, to be exact.  One main compartment, roll top/bivy, removable lid, removable outside pocket, side zip, three compressions, two daisies, and two smallish wand pockets.  That’s all.  I usually throw things in some lightweight stuff sacks just to help me stay a bit organized; clothes in one, shells in another, food in a bear-sack, etc.  I’m thinking I’ll still use that system, but maybe have to modify it some for the current task.  I mean…this is the only time I can ever remember taking a second pair of shoes on a hike. 🤣

2nd pair of shoes?

Does your course not start near or at the snow line?  For my alpine skills class we had the plastic boots on for the whole time since we snow shoed from the cars to the campsite. Are your 2nd pair of shoes for an approach on non snow terrain?

Correct, Bruce: the approach leads up from 3,000-ish to the snow line, with camp at 5,800′ to 6,800′, so the second pair of shoes is an approach shoe…or the single boots, depending on which pair is considered the primary footwear.  Either way, yeah…two pairs. 😬

Maybe find the optimal organization–that still won’t be perfect in the field–and stick with it. In other words, you WILL know where things are, even if they’re not ready to hand.  The cat hole trowel is always underneath your cook pot, just below the puffy, etc. And then repack the same way, if only because you know this organizational strategy fits well in terms of pack carry. Because packing for fit and carry is the most important thing.

On the next trip, you can make adjustments according to what you’ve learned.

There is no perfect organization. Of course, some things need to be ready at hand, like ropes and crampons.

Of course, some things need to be ready at hand, like ropes and crampons.
And chocolate!
Cheers

I think I have a semi-workable strategy; it’s not perfect and it still doesn’t work out well, but it’s the closest I’ve gotten.  I’m just going to go by usage, and keep the heavy stuff to the inside.  So, sleep system and basically everything I don’t need during the approach hike is going in the bottom of the pack; shells, poofies and snacks/water are immediate-use, so they’re going in the top.  Everything else is just going to have to fit in the middle, somewhere.  I know that seems kind of silly, but – again – it’s the best I can come up with.  We’ll see what happens.