Pack Advice – Comfort vs Weight

I guess I should add that despite being my first thread here, I have spent A LOT of time reading on this forum. This is obviously how I’m a beginner and yet had enough information to build a relatively light gear list with little experience. I wanted to add this in case someone tells me to use the search function as trust me, I have looked for a definitive stance on this matter and could not find any threads where someone plainly said “Yes, I find heavier packs more comfortable but don’t want to carry the extra weight” or “I actually find (x) UL pack more comfortable than heavier packs”. I am looking for opinions from people who have tried various packs to compare their findings to mine.

Thanks

I think that pack weight is one area where a little more weight can be worth it. An uncomfortable pack can be tiring in its own right, besides the rigors of the trail, so a bit more weight may actually prove a benefit in a long day of hiking. However, around here a heavy pack is often thought of as anything above 2 lbs. Your Atmos is a 4 lb pack. If you set your sights on something 3 lb or less you can still be very comfortable but save a pound or more. A lot depends on packing skills and, of course, what feels good to you.

Short answer-

Yes.

Long answer-

All things are relative, brother.  Including this issue.  I think that most of us would propose that 20lbs with a GG Gorilla is indistinguishable from a heavier pack regarding comfort.  Any higher than that, though, and yes you’ll start to notice the difference.  Not a big one, but a difference.  Moving further- while we would call it do-able, few of us are fanatical enough to to claim that a 35lb load with a fully framleless pack like an MLD Prophet is totally comfortable.  But it’s certainly not bad enough for most of us to want a heavier pack.  Most.  There are a lot of folks on this forum rocking fully framed mainstream packs.  In fact I would tentatively speculate that the pack is probably the single item most likely to be a non-UL-fanatical version, here.  (Maybe the Copper Spur is in the running among tents?)

That said, I would have recommended an Exos if you like Osprey.  :)

Thanks, George. I have considered a middle ground such as you mentioned, but what comes to mind would be something like the ULA Circuit. This is a quandary for me as from what I have read, it appears to me that people generally find the Gorilla more comfortable than the Circuit IF they can fit their stuff in it and their weight is low 20’s or lower. What are your thoughts?

Thanks, Dean. I don’t suspect that my weight will ever be much higher than the 20 lbs listed above as this trail will be dry when I hike it so that weight includes a few liters of water and I hope to be able to carry less water and filter on future hikes. With that, I actually thought the exact same thing as you mentioned above…I decided to look at UL packs and saw that so many people loved the Exos so it seemed like a no-brainer. Wrong…I went to REI and tried it on with 20 lbs loaded and hated it. Strange I know, but also reaffirming as it gives me a baseline to compare to and that’s the reason I can confidently say that the Atmos is superbly comfortable BUT the Gorilla is also VERY comfortable, just a little bit less than the Atmos.

Well, it depends, like dean was saying. I find a Murmur more comfortable than my Atmos. But, what do you mean by comfort? I took my Trek on a long distance trip (740mi.) I had a great time with no issues (well, I left it open one time and dropped some stuff out of it…doesn’t count.) Others say this was a terrible pack even though it was HUGE (4500ci) and well suited to long trips. If you know what you are doing, any pack with shoulder straps and belt work fine.

So, experience counts a lot.

If I carry 27 pounds with my Osprey, I can cut this down by about 3.5 pounds by using the Murmur. About 20oz vs 3#15. But the Murmur also includes my sleeping pad. The Osprey does not. About a 12oz. So, it is around a 3.5 pound difference. The loss of space in the Murmur is almost made up for the better packing efficiency of the Murmur, only about a 500ci size difference. I say 23.5 pounds is noticeably different on a two week trip, about the same for the first week and much more comfortable for the second. About 10-15% of the loadi makes a difference.

If I was to carry 35 pounds, I would take the Osprey. The Murmur cannot handle that load. It just is not built for that pressure, regardless of the potential 10% savings. So, it depends.

The experience thing does come into play.  With light enough loads it doesn’t matter, but more experienced hikers are constantly adjusting strap tension and shifting weight from hips to shoulders and back to avoid fatiguing any one muscle group.  We don’t even really think about it, we just do it.  This makes heavier loads in more minimalist packs much more bearable.  Novices have a tendency to just tighten all of the straps (incorrectly) and then suffer through it.  Unfortunately this can’t really be taught- it just comes with experience.  And suffering.  :)

Dean,

I totally agree and while I am by no means experienced, especially considering I have only done day hikes, I have consistently hiked 10-15 miles in a day with my daughter in the Poco and it comes out to well over 40 lbs. I have to frequently adjust to shift things around so hopefully some of this has become subconscious enough to put me into compatibility with a UL pack such as the Gorilla.

I also tried the Osprey Exos and didn’t like it.  I bought the Osprey Talon 44 (2 lbs, 6 oz) and have found it to be very comfortable.

“I don’t suspect that my weight will ever be much higher than the 20 lbs listed above as this trail will be dry when I hike it so that weight includes a few liters of water and I hope to be able to carry less water and filter on future hikes”

Tyler,

Do you think you might someday backpack with your kid(s)? My general recommendation for folks starting out in backpacking is to “keep it simple” and let the your gear needs evolve as your experience does. (In my opinion) While lighter, and with a few exceptions, much of the cottage-made UL gear I’ve seen won’t likely compete with the durability of Osprey, McHale, ArcTeryx, etc…  Perhaps if you have future backpacking trips down the road with children, a solid, durable pack might be good consideration to think about. Also, backpacking with kids requires a lot more volume and weight than normally anticipated.

Personally, I am very fond of my Arc Blast. The first time we went backpacking as a family, I was the porter, and I had to use my vinatage 6000 cui Lowe. While it’s heavy as hell, it’s comfortable, stable, and can hold a kitchen sink. But now that two of my kids are carrying their own loads, I am finally using the Blast for these trips. (Fwiw, My son prefers using a 25 year old semi-light ArcTeryx pack.)

Tyler,

My 2 packs are almost identical to yours. I have the Osprey aether and granite gear Virgo. Your Gorilla appears to have a UL aluminum rod that’s kind of between frameless and true frame (I think). So it might be the best of both words depending on your testing.

I really like having the options though, and I use these two packs on very different trips.

The GG frameless are amazing, and a great way to shed 3.5 pounds. When I use it AND pack an appropriate weight it definitely adds miles to each day without me even really noticing. (I’m less tired even with more miles).

The reason I maintain the bigger pack is for winter trips (carrying extra layers, microspikes, ropes). Also if I’m in a park that requires a bear canisters.. My BC is 3.5 lbs and up a ton of room. I’ve carried it in my frameless, and not only do I get tired faster, but I get tired in different areas. Example, if I’m going frameless and I overload it, My shoulders and back will give out before my legs. With a proper osprey pack that’s never the case (it’ll transfer the weight so mostly only my legs get sore).

For this reason if my pack weight with food and water goes above 25 lbs I find it more energy efficient to carry a more robust frame. My aether is definitely overkill but I think a Talon or an atmos could be fine (most people go atmos 35 I thought?)

Disclaimer: I have read a few guys on here hike enough, that their backs are conditioned to carry 30 lbs in a frameless and not get sore. I don’t think that’s really viable though for most weekend warriors.

“I also tried the Osprey Exos and didn’t like it. I bought the Osprey Talon 44 (2 lbs, 6 oz) and have found it to be very comfortable.”

I thought the exos had more volume than the talon? I have heard though that the awesome ventilation on the exos backfires in the winter. It compresses the insulation on your back (via the mesh) but doesn’t protect you from the wind. I haven’t had or heard that problem with the other ospreys (less dramatic ventilation).

So it sounds like my best bet in the short term is to pull the trigger on the Gorilla and return my Atmos 50 and here’s why… I don’t anticipate doing overnight trips with my daughter for at least a few more years. That is long enough for me to justify buying the lighter pack to use in the interim. Capacity alone isn’t enough for me to consider keeping the Atmos short term as the lack of a curved frame and massive external pockets on the Gorilla actually provides me with more usable space than the Atmos 50. Seems crazy on paper, I know, but having the two in my possession I can safely tell you that I can fit just as much, if not more, gear in the Gorilla than the Atmos AG 50 in size Medium. If/when I decide to either take my daughter, or hike in the winter, I would need something bigger than the 50 anyway so when that time comes I will just look to pick up an Atmos 65 or something comparable.

Thanks for all the help and advice!

get what fits best when carrying the load you want

fit doesnt always means being cushy … a simple frameless pack can fit you better than something with all the doo-dads

what it does mean is that the moment you put it on, and especially once you put some weight in it and run around … you should know that that pack feels like “love at first sight” after trying on everything else

packs and shoes are the two things that MUST fit … weight and costs are secondary

never try to make packs or shoes with poor fit work … thats just asking for a divorce from them in the future and much pain

;)

Hi Tyler,

I was an Osprey fan for a good while until I upgraded. Now I own a custom Mchale S-SARC. I had Dan use a super burly heavy weight Hybrid Cuben for the main pack body with some lighter weight Hybrid Cuben in the areas likely to see less abrasion. Also I only have one waist belt pocket rather than two. Now granted I can strip all the external elements (Bottle pockets, Lid and waist belt pockets) to save weight if I choose to but my pack it not that light… I’m not exactly sure just how heavy it is but its definitely not UL.

All that said there isn’t another pack on the planet that I would choose to take with me on any hike longer than a few hours. I totally love my S-SARC, It burly, comfortable, extendable with the included bayonets, strippable, shrinkable and will last a lifetime.

Go the Exos or something from Zimmer or Mchale.

Nuf said.

Lawrie

Hey Tyler,

I went through this same question for my JMT hike, do I save weight or do I go with what was comfortable (Aura AG)?

This is what I concluded, if 2.2lbs makes the entire load you are carrying more comfortable then it’s well worth carrying the 2.2lbs.  And frankly if it’s comfortable then that 2.2lbs disappears.

I found that my Osprey AG makes weight literally disappear. So while technically it is more weight, since it fits me so well and carries the load so well that my pack feels almost 10lbs lighter then ANY other pack I put on, which is a laundry list of brands and packs. There something magic about it hahaha.  I know people that don’t really like the AG’s but i think if they fit you right then do it.  You will not regret it and that 2.2lbs disappears.

22.6 lbs that is really comfortable is ALWAYS better then 20.4 lbs that is not really comfortable.

Hope my rambles were helpful :-)

I am in the same camp as Lawrence, my McHale is the most comfortable pack I have ever used, often I use my Rei Flash 45 (which fits well) when I am on a UL buzz, but keep going back to my McHale.

Tyler

i have a gorilla and love it. My base weight ranges from 10-12lbs so it’s similar to yours. I would say 23lbs and lower is great. 25 lbs is fine too. If you live near me (Los Angeles), you’re welcome to borrow it. It’s a medium torso pack with a small belt.

I really like the Seek Outside packs, but packs are a personal thing. I did a lot of backpacking with a 16oz frameless pack using a Ridgerest as a frame but since have changed to a Neoair and thus a framed pack.

I had the same dilemma – and tried a bunch of alternative packs (and packing methods) trying to figure out the answer :)

What I found was that my ankle, knees, and hip sockets are significantly more sore at the end of the 2nd day than anything else.  So I look for the lightest pack I can find that still meets my needs.

Here’s what I learned about MY needs – your mileage may vary ;)

I like all the weight on my hips, and my hipbones get pressure sores after 2 days — so a hipbelt that doesn’t sag and let the pack bounce when I walk – while still being “soft feeling” is important to me.  Surprisingly, this “good” hipbelt is usually wide in the back, and thin enough to wrap around the hip bones nice. The thick “cushy looking” hip belts ALL caused me soreness by day 3 (some at the end of day 1).

I get sores from the shoulder straps at the front edge of my arm pits after day 2. “Regular” shoulder straps were significantly more comfortable than “wide” ones for me. It was also VERY important that they were relatively close together where they were attached to the pack.

A rigid frame wasn’t that big of a deal —- even though I don’t like weight on my shoulders. Packing everything in the pack extra tight made it pretty rigid by itself – even though I use a blow-up pad. I still like a light frame – but it’s because it keeps the back of the pack flat. Without the frame, the tightly packed pack is barrel shaped and pushes on my spine. It’s not uncomfortable, but it is a bit annoying.  A barrel shaped pack also sways / rolls side to side when I walk — which is definitely annoying.

I also wanted something I didn’t have to baby. I take my pack off and sit down at rest breaks. I want to be able to grab the pack and drag it over to me so I can grab my water bottle. Initially, I went with 200 denier cloth with a dyneema rip stop overlay.  I figured it would last a year if I was lucky.  Surprisingly – it holds up just fine (although I’m still a “little” careful).  No punctures, abraded thread-bare areas, and no seams starting to pop — even though I stuff it tight.

Honestly, 2 lbs isn’t that big of a difference, especially for casual weekend trips. If the pack fits you well and you’re happy with it, use it, as there will always be a bigger, better, and shinier toy out there. However, if you find that you never fill the osprey pack, having a smaller framed pack for those trips may be a worthwhile investment.

Pack fit is so specific that it is really hard to know what will work best until you purchase and try it out for yourself.

Wow, thanks for all the responses! Awesome community you have built here and I’m excited to be here. On any trip that would take place in the next few years (no child), up to a week, even in cold weather, the Gorilla would be plenty so volume is of no concern. I was really just wanting to know if people carrying UL packs truly found them more comfortable than robust packs. The answer seems to be mixed and I can appreciate that. I am slender but in very good shape (5’10, 165 lbs) so I’m thinking that the lighter weight, smaller pack like the Gorilla is just going to be a better pack for me in the end. That might seem backwards as I’m carrying less body weight than some so I should be able to afford more pack weight, but I don’t want to feel weighed down and while the Atmos is like a Cadillac, it just feels bulky and heavy on back so I’m not sure if I can consider pack comfort alone.. FWIW, Osprey has done something really special with the AG. I just hope to see it in a lighter weight offering in the future.

Thanks again!