Overboots and More

[David R.]

I’m trying to decide on my shoe kit for upcoming snow camping trips in January; we have snow in California!

My last trip I tried using a neoprene sock VB with my lighweight Zamberlan Mid GTX hikers and it did not work that well as my toes were sometimes cold. My sock layers were: injinji lightweight wool socks / sealed neoprene socks / thicker wool socks. I had seam sealed all the seams for 2-3 days and the neoprene socks still leaked in the field. I called the neoprene sock manufacturer and the owner advised that they don’t ever try to seam seal their socks as in their experience they will always leak. I tend to agree with him.

So my new layer system will be: injinji lightweight wool socks /plastic bags (or oven roasting bags) / thicker wool socks. Using a trail / road runner inside a 40 below overboot. Does this seem reasonable?

Which 40 Below overboot?: Light Energy TR Overboots or Light Energy Shorty Overboots

Given that I already have knee high gaiters what would be the advantage of the taller overboots? Are they substantially warmer? Are the shorty version more versatile? What about vapor barriers for the taller overboots?

And what about using a road running shoe rather than a trail running shoe inside the overboot? Since the tread of the trail runner seems to be wasted on the inside of the overboot and it might actually be better to have less tread for more surface contact. Any ideas / thoughts?

Last, I read somewhere that because trail runners are so lightweight that snowshoe straps can cut off foot circulation. Anybody experiencing with that problem?

Thanks for any and all suggestions, comments, and advice!

 

[Justin Baker]

What do you mean by your neoprene socks “leaking”? How was water even getting near the socks in the first place?

[David R.]

My previous trip I did not use overboots, just my Zamberlan Mid GTX hikers with these sock layers: injinji lightweight wool socks / sealed neoprene socks / thicker wool socks. I was traveling through 5-“8” of fresh and sometimes wet snow so water was able to permeate hrough everything. I would like a system which keeps my feet warm and this system did not work that well.

[Ryan Jordan]

David,

This article discusses part of my approach to this problem. I think it’s probably applicable to California winters where temperatures don’t dip into extreme cold very often. The article talks about a “prototype” overboot by Forty Below. That’s the overboot that actually turned into the Light Energy TR.

So my new layer system will be: injinji lightweight wool socks /plastic bags (or oven roasting bags) / thicker wool socks. Using a trail / road runner inside a 40 below overboot. Does this seem reasonable?

Absolutely. Sounds solid. If you expect extreme cold, you might ditch the toe socks in favor of a standard liner so your toes can share as much heat as possible.

Also there will be a temperature above which where the vapor barrier bags will cause maceration (also discussed in the article) instead of a VB effect. For me, it’s usually somewhere between 10 and 25 deg F, depending on the exact nature of my footwear system and level of exertion.

Which 40 Below overboot?: Light Energy TR Overboots or Light Energy Shorty Overboots

I’m not a huge fan of carrying multiple pieces in a system, so I lean towards the high overboots and no gaiters. But I understand the need to pair the shorties with a high gaiter in deep snow (where high overboots would be fine). I know there would be some benefit to pairing a high gaiter with the shoes in the absence of the overboot in certain conditions where the high overboot isn’t appropriate, but I find those conditions to be more rare than i think.

And what about using a road running shoe rather than a trail running shoe inside the overboot? Since the tread of the trail runner seems to be wasted on the inside of the overboot and it might actually be better to have less tread for more surface contact. Any ideas / thoughts?

Interesting, I’d never thought of that before, and the idea seems to have at least some theoretical merit. One disadvantage I could see is if you were to be hiking on snow-bare terrain, etc. without the overboots, where the more aggressively-lugged sole of a trail shoe might have some benefit.

Last, I read somewhere that because trail runners are so lightweight that snowshoe straps can cut off foot circulation. Anybody experiencing with that problem?

Yes, definitely a consideration. Overboots help resist this dramatically, and so do straps made of rubbery materials that have a little bit of stretch to them.

[David R.]

Hi Ryan,

Thanks a bunch for the replies and the link to your great article.

I can see what you mean about limiting the number of items and I’m leaning towards the full height Light Energy TR Overboots. I measured most of my trail runner and light hikers and they are all about the same length which is good. I ordered pair of the Darn Tough Full Cushion socks.

One question; I understand that the Hydropel is no longer manufactured. Do you have another recommendation for battling maceration? I have a tube of HikeGoo and also found a product called Seat Saver by Hammer. And then I remembered that I have a tub of Musher’s Secret (100% Human Grade Natural Waxes for keeping snow out of dog paws) but thought that might work quite well.

Thanks again!

David

 

[Ryan Jordan]

David – I now use Skin Glide Liquified Powder (a Bodyglide product) and love it. I actually like it better than Hydropel, and it’s way less greasy.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

David,

 

I dunno what brand your neoprene sox were or what seam sealer you tried to use but I’ve never had a leakage problem with mine once sealed with a seam sealer meant for urethane tents.

If you are still dead set against using your neoprene sox then use a ripstop VBL liner over thin polypro liner sox.

UPDATE: My newest neoprene sox are US Divers and they are seam sealed at the factory. It’s good that you filled your sox with water to test them. Good idea.

[David R.]

Hi Eric,

I purchased these neoprene socks:

http://www.gator-sports.com/shop/basic-neoprene-socks/

And used this seam sealer (the same I use on my surfing wet-suits):

http://www.nrs.com/product/2291/aquaseal-urethane-repair-adhesive

I applied one coat to all the seams and let it dry and found a few small leaks so I added another coat but did not have time to test them before I headed out the next day. But my feet did get a little wet and I when I tested them back at home both had small leaks. I spoke with the owner of Gator and asked if they had a sealed version of their neoprene socks and he said they don’t because of that very problem; its impossible to guarantee the seams stay sealed. I searched quite a bit for a seam-sealed neoprene sock for sale and the only one I found was the NRS Boundary Sock which is out of my price range for experimenting.

http://www.nrs.com/product/2347/nrs-boundary-socks-with-hydrocuff

I’ll be trying a vapor barrier sock next and let you know how that turns out.

http://www.moontrail.com/rab-vapor-barrier-socks.php?cid=3463:3478&oid=8628:8666

All the best,

David

 

 

[Edward Barton]

FYI David, there is a less expensive, shorter version of the seam taped NRS sock:

http://www.nrs.com/product/23411/nrs-expedition-socks-with-hydrocuff

It can be found online for around $36.

 

[Edward Barton]

The thing with a vapor barrier sock like the Rab model you mention, at least in my understanding, is that the same function could be filled with a much lighter, less expensive bread bag, essentially, or a mylar turkey bag, which is surprisingly durable.

The neoprene, on the other hand, also provides serious insulation as well as being a VB. I’ve been amazed by how warm they are compared with much thicker and heavier wool and poly socks. That said, as Ryan says, in the wrong conditions they can lead to maceration.

I wonder whether having a thicker wicking layer beneath them, with more material to sequester moisture put off by the feet, would provide a better buffer to maceration in spring conditions compared with just a pp liner sock. If you could sufficiently dry out the wetter, thicker liner in your bag at night, perhaps this would work well in mixed conditions.

[David R.]

Thanks Edward for the link to the shorty version NRS neoprene sealed sock.

Since I’m new to snow camping I rely heavily on reviews and have found people who prefer a number of solutions (neoprene, plastic bags, oven bags, Rab / ID VB socks, gore tex socks, other VP socks).

At this point my I’m going to try the Rab VB sock as my wife wanted to get me something for the holidays and it was the first thing that came to mind.

I also purchased a pair of alpaca socks which are supposedly slightly warmer than wool socks and I’m hoping to keep every thing snug in a pair of 40 Below overboots.

https://www.openherd.com/articles/299/why-is-alpaca-fiber-so-warm

Looking forward to my upcoming snow camping trips!

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