Osprey thinks you want to buy a 6.7 lb $700 backpack.

[YoPrawn]

To those who might ask why companies such as Zpacks are not sold in REI or any retail outlet, there’s is one major reason I think — profit margins.

Zpacks sells all of their gear without any retailer markup, as they sell direct. They can maintain a “competitive” price for USA made gear this way. They still have a profit margin that works for them.

If Zpacks sold through REI, which has many other logistical stocking problems, they would have to increase their retail prices to compensate for the cut REI would take. The only other option would be to outsource production to be cheaper, which is more difficult when working with such high material costs for dyneema products.

I think this is exactly what happened to Hyperlite. They decided to go the mainstream retail route with REI and others, and in doing so increased sales volume but probably cut into per-sale profit margins. For the amount of sewing work done on those pack, which is SUPER minimal compared to many others, they charge a ridiculous amount of money. They’re charging close to $400 for packs that should easily cost much less than that. Without surprise, they have sent production out of the country, without lowering prices at all.

[Brian W]

The only reasons I can think for having a more heavy pack is that I either have to manage carrying a gallon or more of water. Think Grand Canyon and other desert hikes. Or I have to carry a bear canister that I don’t want against my back. But I’m certain lighter options exists for carrying all that water.

[Kevin @ Seek Outside]

Ive long thought, most Osprey packs were made to look good on store shelf, and to have gimmicks that appeal to people like some sort of trinket to a rodent.

Heck , we make a pack that 2lbs 12 ounces , costs a little over 400, uses a more bomber fabric,  and can carry 100 lbs but it doesn’t have much in the way of gimmicks and trinkets.

Personally, outside of margins, I don’t really want to work with big retailers. It becomes the tail wagging the dog. We do work with some smaller ones and some distributors in foreign countries and that works great. I also believe, by and large we will provide much better support for our product than what is at REI does. The last time I was in REI, I thought the main goal was to sell co-op memberships as every sales associate always asked that first to everyone.

[Murali C]

My frustration with this product is that there is no difference between their Atmos/Aether’s. No value add. So, if the Atmos and Aether is under 300 bucks (and Aether pro is 375), why is this bag 700? It is probably because some yahoo with an MBA (after it got bought over by new owners) decided that this is a good strategy. It is like Seek Outside introducing the “Continental Divide” with a titanium frame and selling it for 2x of Divide.

It makes no sense whatsoever.

[Roger Caffin]

It makes no sense whatsoever.
That would depend on whether you have a degree in marketing spin. :)
Maybe the yuppies are a sufficient market?

Cheers

[Kevin @ Seek Outside]

From the looks, it looks like they are trying to achieve a stiff frame that moves with you. 7075, like we use on the flight, can be plenty stiff. I am not sure where they are trying to get movement ,and also am not sure if it is needed. I climbed a class 4 ridge with a Flight pack on. a couple times head movement was limited but I could adjust to get the movement. I’ve also used our big packs on class 4 decents when I used to do rescue stuff.

[Sam Farrington]

Osprey makes many different kinds of packs; but, this thread was about a particularly heavy and pricey one.  So agree with the criticism and even sarcasm.  That’s to be expected on Backpacking LIGHT when heavy stuff if touted.  That’s why I follow BPL, to find ways to save my back, yet be able to trek both on and off trail in wilderness areas.   For folks who want to “haul” heavy loads, it’s their decision, and most if not all of them may eventually suffer the consequences.

In defense of Osprey, they have pioneered packs with suspended mesh backbands, although some models have had very taut backbands that put the center of gravity of the pack way too far back for a comfy carry.  Almost as bad as packing way too heavy.

As with tents, I began long ago with modifying packs, and moved on to making my own.  The suspended mesh backbands ventilate the back, and if well designed, keep flying insects from feasting there.  One of the early packs weighed under 6 pounds and carried the heaviest  loads.  That’s why the 6.7 lb. Osprey strikes me as ridiculous at any price.  But on BPL, one must always consider the sources of threads, as they may emanate from competing marketers.  There are much lighter Ospreys, and I use one for day hiking, that even has a suspended mesh backband.

But have learned that my fixation for those backbands is not shared by most on BPL.  Possibly for reasons like the overly taut backbands mentioned above.  Mine use durable, but flexible mesh, and can be adjusted to bring the pack closer to the back, so the weight is kept forward.  Without that, it would be just another bad design.

Another fixation are the sidearms that place all of the weight on the Iliac crests, or hips, and can be adjusted so the open-front hipbelt is at just the most comfortable tightness around the bod, and thus even allow the pack to be carried at different heights.  The benefits are great, but the big drawback is the weight of the suspension, including the sidearms.

Sometime ago, Roger Caffin was kind enough the prebend some highly tempered .340 dia. Easton tentpole alloy to enough curvature for sidearms.   He bent enough of the shafts to also use in making a frame that would support the adjustable mesh backbands, along with the sidearms.  While the Zpacks approach to this is probably the lightest possible, I also prefer hourglass shaped frames that while a bit heavier, insure that the frame maintains its shape, keeps out insects, and supports the sidearms.  In this photo, while not of an even lighter hourglass frame, the hipbelt and straps have been removed to show more of the suspension:

Note that besides being made of very light double riptstop nylon, the pack is also quite small by comparison with most of what is seen on BPL.  That was the only solution found to keeping  it light , in the 1-2 lb. range.  But it holds everything needed for up to a week, and have never had  a problem finding places to cache resupply food and gear.  So no need to carry extra weight.  And almost always, it is possible to find a night’s lodging at resupply points, which provide a nice break after a week in the boonies.

The main reason for this post is the belief that most packs, even on BPL, are way too large and heavy, ignoring the possibility of packing much lighter, with much greater comfort, enjoyment and rewards.  As the movie stated, “If you build it, they will come.”  So hope some will be inspired to market, build, and use smaller and lighter packs.  It should greatly increase the possibilities of backpacking for many more years, and enjoying it a whole lot more.

[YoPrawn]

[Ethan A.]

@Murali, According to a manager I met at a competitor mentioned in this thread, Osprey has 85% of the US backpack market, so they seem to know their consumers. This pack seems aimed at high-end newbie consumers, which is a part of the market a bunch of outdoor companies are making a real push for. In fact, the price tag may be part of the branding – it’s better because it costs more. That said, they make some nice daypacks – I’ve used an Osprey Talon 22 for years – it’s very lightweight, airy and does the job.

[Sam Farrington]

“I think Osprey is looking for idiots…”   Just folks with special needs, as has been mentioned.  Osprey makes plenty of much lighter packs for most hikers.

When I was hiking with commercially made packs, only picked ones with hipbelts that could be tightened on the fly by pulling forward on webbing that ran through buckles attached to each end of the belts.  Liked this feature so much, that incorporated it into packs with sidearms, so that the arms could be tightened just by tugging on webbing on each side of the sidearms. Those belts were open at front, and not secured by a hipbelt buckle.  Like the Stephenson pack, there are additional buckles to tighten the ends of the belt connected to the ends of the sidearms, but once set, those seldom need adjustment, as the sidearm adjustment fully controls the tightness of the hipbelt around the torso.

[Scott Roach]

With maybe the possible exception of the exos/eja, Ospreys huge array of bells and whistles on their packs seams to be for shelf appeal. Meaning they look great in the store to the inexperienced but do rather little in the field other than get in the way and add weight.

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