Not feeling it froma a thin down jacket.

Here’s the website, btw—

http://www.ems.com/ems-men%E2%80%99s-feather-pack-800-downtek-hooded-jacket/1281721.html

Despite the fancy Down-Tek and the 15.5oz weight and the nifty reviews, the website fails to provide the most important spec of all:  Total amount in ounces of the goose down used in the jacket.  I’d be surprised if there is more than 3ozs of down in this jacket.

I would be wary of any company selling a down jacket that doesn’t list this number.

And low down weight equals low insulating power.  For an example, my winter down parka for in-camp survival at 0F or -10F has 15 ozs of 850 fill down, with the parka itself coming in at just over 2 lbs.  (Their updated version has 13.8ozs of down).

Puffies as in your example have their place as a type of outer layer warmth while hiking or backpacking, and in my opinion do not provide the kind of warmth needed for in-camp comfort while out of the bag, i.e. cooking, sitting up to read, camp chores, turtlehead runs, etc.

A “real” down parka or jacket on the other hand is rarely used for actual backpacking and instead is a survival item to get thru severe cold snaps in camp or when pulling into camp.  I would not and could not wear my Icefall parka while on the move.

My backpacking buddy uses a down puffy while on the move—

With minimal down a puffy acts as a sweater and keeps you going under load on a 12F morning as above.  Since my Icefall parka is overkill, I use my rain jacket over capilene to same effect.

I don’t think Patman will mind if I use this pic from a more recent trip.  We were camping last month together and got up to a tough 8F morning.  I was wearing my parka and he resorted to old school warmth—his excellent WM Lynx sleeping bag over his puffy jacket.

Just a little in out asI have a similar EMS down jacket. I think it would qualify as more of a “down sweater.”  It’s warm and an awesome layering piece it’s now parka.  This past winter I was sitting in camp with 2 shirts a fleece the EMS cost and a rain shell over to be warm.  It was down in the low 20’s and a tend to run a little bit on the cooler side.  It’s not the warmest but when used as part of a layering system is really effective.

According to Lisa P. from ems live chat a few months back, <span style=”color: #5e7685;”><b>”Lisa P:</b></span> The Feather Pack averages at about 5 oz.”

Take that for what it is…seems a bit optimistic to me but that’s what Lisa says…

Same subject, i asked another live chat rep and they kept quoting the fill power when i asked for the weight of the down fill.

• while down sweaters provide more “warmth” than anything else for the weight, they arent THAT warm
• thinner down sweaters with 2-3 oz of down are marginal for stand alone static insulation down to freezing, many want 4-5 oz
• the FIT matters just as much, a poor fit with air gaps means that youre trying to heat up dead air spaces and it acts as a bellows
• the best results with down sweaters is layering them with something like a fleece or synth, or another down sweater
• if its really humid the down may not feel all that “warm”

down sweaters are great as BOOSTER layers, but for many folks they overpromise and underdeliver as standalone items

;)

Might as well wear a windshirt and a light fleece. Or your estrogen levels are off again :)

I believe this piece may only have 3oz at max.  It is a cheap down sweater but yeah, I don’t find it any warmer than my R2 and a windshirt.  I am going to wait until Wednesday and see if a use for it will pop up before I send it back.  Back on the hunt for something more in the 5-6oz range.

Montbell Mirage!

only $216.30 if you like puke green and are xl at montbell outlet website.

http://www.montbell.us/products/disp.php?cat_id=2001&p_id=2301365&gen_cd=1&fo_flg=1

The light puffies are really a 200 wt fleece equivalent in terms of when, how it was used in the past and rough warmth: Throw on in camp, sleeping or at a break.

As other said above, for a winter puffy, 5 oz of fill is the generally accepted minimum.

I think people associate down coats with winter and use it the same way ..when the down sweaters fit a different niche all together.

The down sweaters (and synth puffies) aren’t bad by any means, and fit their niche nicely. It is just note really for true winter use IMO.

Something I wrote earlier this year:

Thanks, need the XXL.

Correct, it is probably only slightly warmer than a high loft fleece and windshirt, but at significantly less weight and bulk.

Yup, down sweaters are quite warm for spring and fall. When things get around 32F or so, I start adding things. And they do not do so well if they are wet. But, like Paul was saying, they definitely have a place. They are great for extending warmth of a lower degree bag and for wearing around camp down to about 40F or so.  Nope, they are not cold weather gear, though.

I eschew those stylish thin down jackets. Yeah, that look great on well built young chicks but for practical purposes not so much.

The EB jacket shown in my avatar is the absolute minimum thickness I’ll carry. Otherwise I feel you are carrying too little insulation for the same shell weight. It’s a “warmth-to-weight ratio” thing.

My EB down “sweater”, as they used to call it, is barely warm enough under my eVent parka on a +15 F. morning around camp. It only is OK when I wear my EB down vest under it.  A down vest, BTW, is a very versatile item.

I think it depends on what “cold” or “winter” is for you. Some have said a minimum of 5 oz of down for those jackets, but 3-4 oz with a wind shell is pretty toasty in the SC foothills areas most of the winter.

Yes, it very much depends.  I’ve used a combo Stoic Hadron anorak, a lightweight down vest, and a windjacket over the other two comfortably down to near 0*F temps.  Baselayer usually is Cap 4 or similar equivalent.  Sometimes a thin and very light, hollow fiber PP baselayer is thrown on top of that.

But i have above average cold tolerance most of the time.  (except first thing early in the morning when taking a shower, then i temporarily turn into super skinny, anemic, little old lady cold tolerance wise–the kind that wants the set indoor temp in winter to be like 80).

Brett, I had the same experience…

This looks like the same EMS branded jacket that I tried out last year. It was inexpensive with coupon sales and such but the damn shell was stitched so restrictively that it would have lessened any measure of loft. Now my wife has an EMS puffy from the old Ascent line (slightly lighter in weight) which is a GREAT jacket and still going strong, as warm as my Montbell alpine light. After field testing the EMS jacket I returned it and bought a Montbell.
We have been so disappointed in EMS over the last several years we don’t bother with them anymore. They have had some great pieces of gear in the past but the quality is real crap now. At least in my not so humble opinion :)

Granted I don’t live anywhere with real winter, but when it’s cold I wear two down sweaters when riding my motorcycle to work.