New winter tent for 2.

[V R]

 

Helo all.

I am a happy Hilleberg user, have the Unna and the Keron 4GT.

Great tents.

Now I find myself in need for a 2 pp tent, winter use, so red or black label.

What I am down to is:

Allak and Jannu.

I am thinking more of the red label tents, saves a bit on the weight.

The tent will be used a lot solo, but time to time we will be 2.

Is the ventilation better on the Allak?

Jannu has a bit more space, but only one door.

All tip and feedback is welcome.

Cheers all.

 

[V R]

Have been out testing the Allak for one night.

I like this one, so might pull the trigger.

Will have a look at the Jannu later these week. Cheers

[Eric Blumensaadt]

I vote for the Allak.

Two doors are almost a necessity for winter camping in a 2 person tent. Gives you options for an entrance if the wind shifts plus no crawling over yer tent mate at 0 Dark Thirty to take a pee.

Jus’ saying’…

[David P]

Hello VR

I know you specified those Hilleberg tents In your post, just wanted to let you know what I use in case you haven’t purchased  a new tent yet.

i use an MLD Cuben fiber Supermid in winter for 2-3 person use. I use their Duomid for solo use in winter as well. It is pyramid shaped and uses your trekking pole as support. It is not freestanding, you have to peg it down.  I use “snow anchors” by rolling my tent pegs(or sticks) up in the extra guy line and burying them in a boot stomped hole in the snow. The tent weighs only 20oz with guy lines. I think the Allak weighs around 6 lbs. It has performed extremely well for me in heavy snow and high winds. I had the fortune to spend a night out in the Polar Vortex last winter with fifty-60 mph swirly winds and 18” of snow  and was never concerned about the tent failing. Easily fits three ppl plus gear. It has only one door but We sleep with our feet towards the door so minimal climbing over one another to get out. And TBH in the dead of winter I use a “pee bottle” at night so do my companions. Dont feel like putting  on boots and crawling out into the snow at negative temps in the middle of a good nights sleep!

TMI probably but there it is! Happy snow camping!!

 

[Stuart .]

Above treeline, predominantly winter use: Jannu.

Below treeline or sheltered location, predominantly 3 season use: Allak.

The former is much stronger in the wind and handles snow accumulation with aplomb. The latter is night and day better for ventilation and is more comfortable overall, but it’s nowhere near as storm resistant out of the box. Add a second set of poles and it’s better, but the Jannu is the winner in high altitude use.

[Jon Solomon]

I think that the Allak would be a pain in blowing snow, and high winds wouldn’t be very fun, either.
The Jannu has a couple of shortcomings. When it snows, the unsupported fabric vestibule, which might drip a little, is compressed. The interior space is minimalist (small footprint could be a plus). Several reports over the years since its introduction of failure in very high winds at altitude surpass my personal threshold for bomber/weight ratio. Static dome constructions are strong, but finally prone to failure. Well-designed tunnel tents strike a balance between stress-dissipating flexibility and strength that gives them an overall advantage (except in terms of snow-loading capability).
My choice would be for a Wilderness Equipment First Arrow, a 3 pole tunnel at a weight well below either the Jannu or the Allak. Much more space, lots of door access and vestibule storage options front and rear, well-thought out ventilation, bomber protection.
If absolutely, unquestionably, over-the-top bomber were required, I wouldn’t hesitate to lug a Helsport Patagonia, which adds all kinds of incredibly useful design details to Hilleberg black label standard fabrics.

[Bruce Tolley]

BPL Review by Roger Caffin of the Wilderness Equipment First Arrow

https://backpackinglight.com/tunnel_tents_2012_we_first_arrow/

[Jon Solomon]

Were I to post a link to a review of a previous model of a tent, I would at least have the respect (to the manufacturer) to mention that fact up front.

FWIW, the First Arrow is built today using different (stronger lighter more durable) fabrics from the ones in Roger’s review. The weight is significantly reduced. Most of the criticisms have been addressed by the fabric changes, while the positives remain. As far as I know, this might well be the only two-person three pole tunnel (excluding extended vestibule) currently on the market.

[Edward John M]

Except for the aforementioned Helsport Patagonia, which is a very good tent indeed but I wish it also had an extended vestibule. A 4-person version of the Helsport Patagonia with a small extended vestibule would be my own ideal winter tent for a long trip in severe conditions. Not even close to UL tho but deep winter and UL are not always compatible companions.

[Franco Darioli]

The WE First Arrow is now about 1/3rd lighter, down from 3.3 kg to 2.3 kg.

[Bruce Tolley]

@ Jon

The BPL review is clearly dated 2012 which should be self explanatory that it is not a recent review

I am sure the editors of BPL would welcome an up to date review of the tent by you.
Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

As far as I know, this might well be the only two-person three pole tunnel (excluding extended vestibule) currently on the market.
Good Lord NO!
The gold standard for 2-man 3-pole tunnels is the Macpac Olympus (imho).
There some European 2-man 3-pole tunnels by Hilleberg and Helsport which are designed for ‘bad weather’.
I am sure there are others too.

I am cheered that the WE 1st Arrow has got lighter. I had a good moan at the owner of WE back in 2012 about the weight: it was a materials-availability problem as I recall. The basic design still has some defects imho (see previously cited review), but it sells.

Cheers

[Jon Solomon]

As I specified in a subsequent post, my comment about three poles is limited to tunnel tents without an extended vestibule. That rules out all of the Helsport tents except the Patagonia mentioned above. It also rules out most of the Hilleberg tents right away.

But there is an exception, one that I should have remembered, namely the Hilleberg Kaitum 2, since I actually used to have one.

My ideas about the value of three poles (excluding poled vestibule) are completely indebted to Roger Caffin. I’m pretty sure that the distance between poles on the Kaitum 2 is greater than the 100cm limit specified by Roger, whereas that between the poles on the WE First Arrow is shorter. Also, the vestibules on the Kaitum are much larger than the First Arrow.

[Federico Calboli]

Not tried but a 3 poles tunnel is also here:

http://www.thetheoryworks.com/

[Jon Solomon]

Looks really interesting, in theory, of course. ;-)

Too bad that the Winter Inner on the Quadratic Light version weighs so much. At 1190 gr, it weighs more than the fly at 1040 gr. Even without the additional side poles, using carbon poles, the winter version weighs over 2.6 kg. Just the bathtub groundfloor without any mesh or nylon alone weighs 619 grams. They use 40D with a heavy PU coating for a 10,000mm HH. I have a 70D silnylon bathtub floor from Trekkertent that measures 220cm x 120cm (very similar dimensions) and it weighs a little over half that if memory serves me right — and that material is fairly burly. 30D silnylon would be fine, esp for snow. I think that this is where Dan Durston’s concept of coherence comes into play. Since it’s the Light version, why not have a winterized inner tent that follows through using lighter fabrics there too?

Looks like they have some neat ideas. Has anybody used side poles in a tunnel design before? It could potentially address the great weakness of 2 and 3 pole tunnels to side winds. FWIW, the pole sleeves look much better than Hilleberg and Wilderness Equipment.

[Jon Solomon]

But then when you start adding up all the poles (potentially six poles: three for the tunnel, two for the sides, one for the top), it begins to look like a dome tunnel hybrid without the advantages (except for modularity).

[Rob P]

One of the advantages might be usable interior length…I don’t know for sure though because I kept getting an error message when I was trying to click on the product specs link…I was trying to find out the length of the inners…the inner doors look fairly vertical.

[Roger Caffin]

Specs available under ‘Support’ under ‘Quadratic’. Quite a few PDFs.

Standard 2200 mm groundsheet length.
But the tent does end up very heavy.

From my own experience with tunnels in bad weather, I cannot see any benefit to be gained from the side poles or the top pole. I guess they are the designer’s pet hang-up. And I do NOT think they make the tent ‘self-supporting’.

Cheers

[Franco Darioli]

side poles :

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/quadratic-tent-experiences-does-it-match-the-caffin-criteria/

BTW, not all that far …

[Roger Caffin]

Good Lord!
Old idea then for side & top poles, NOT unique as claimed.
Mind you, I do not like the way the poles bend under at ground level. A good snow load might see them buckle.

I wonder how many people can sleep in that one? I can’t find it on the web, so maybe it was not a success?

Cheers

[Franco Darioli]

I don’t think that the Domus tent , a Moss design, was ever sold.

It was meant to be a family tent (Domus= home ( domicile) )

[Stuart Murphy]

The Macpac Olympus (3 pole) and Minaret (2 pole tunnel) seem to be sturdy designs, however the stitching e.g. at guy points does not appear as beefy as hilleberg red label tents (or many 4 season tents I’ve looked at).

TBH I would consider them 3 season for that reason.

FWIW The We Arrow tents are also now available in a thicker 40d (blue) fabricwith 11mm poles.

 

[Jon Solomon]

It’s called the X version. Comes with snow valences.

Blue in the midst of winter? I’ve used green (not the light “apple green” used by WE, but the dark green used on Hillebergs) and didn’t care for it. Never used blue in winter, but just the thought gives me chills.

[Stuart Murphy]

I think the distance between the pole arches on the Second Arrow is greater than the Minaret. It’s also an assymetric design… so presumably more susceptible to wind chages.

 

Can’t comment on the First Arrow vs Olympus but both Arrow tents have better utility for 3 season use (ingress/egress/ventialtion) IMO.

I do wish Macpac would beef up their stitching a bit because those tunnel designs are nice (if you can put up with slightly limited ventilation. The design possibly makes up for the stitching  shortcomings to some extent. (e.g. addititional guys)

 

[Jon Solomon]

The other thing about the asymmetric design of the First Arrow is that it apparently doesn’t like being set up on uneven ground, according to user reports.It seems to me up to a certain point that would be true of tunnels in general, so I’m not sure if the First Arrow is any more susceptible than other tunnel designs in which the poles are perfectly parallel to each other.

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