New study on sun effects on skin (including cancer).

[jscott]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/24/well/live/sun-damage-skin-cancer.html?action=click&module=At%20Home&pgtype=Homepage

recall that hiking at altitude greatly increases the intensity of exposure to sun rays. Also: you don’t have to burn to get the bad effects of sun exposure. Finally: these effects accumulate over years (and yes you will age.)

Wear the dorky hat, people!

[BlackHatGuy]

Wearing dorky hats just kills me …. oh, wait…..

[Manfred]

I readily admit to being dorky :)

[Paul McLaughlin]

And keep in mind that dorky hats are dual purpose gear – they function as effective birth control.

[Jerry Adams]

Given that I can no longer argue with my friend Jeffrey in chaff : )

I think that study just said that actinic keratosis (AK – a thickening of the skin) precedes cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma (a form of skin cancer).  So, it helps doctors diagnose skin cancer.

I don’t think the study looked at what you can do to avoid this

Broad spectrum sunscreen with SPF > 30 may not be that effective.  Or so I’ve read.  If you think it’s protective and stay out in the sun more, then it may be counter productive.

I’m pretty religious about long sleeves, long pants, and dorky hat.  Those are more effective.

The NY Times article said to use sunscreen all the time.  I’ve read that this prevents you from producing vitamin D and other chemicals.  That hurts your immune system which can result in cancer and other problems.  You can take vitamin D pills but other chemicals are also produced by sun exposure.  And the effectiveness of taking vitamin D pills is uncertain.

I try to get 15 minutes of sun exposure regularly.  After 15 minutes, the vitamin D produced in the skin gets broken down by the sun as fast as it gets produced so there’s no benefit to longer exposure.  And the risk of skin cancer and aging skin increases.

The eye doctor said I’m starting to get cataracts.  I religiously wear a dorky hat all the time, no 15 minute exposures.

https://www.outsideonline.com/2380751/sunscreen-sun-exposure-skin-cancer-science

[jimmyjam]

I’ve been putting on 15 to 30 spf on my face almost everyday for 30 years and worn a ballcap nearly all the time. Just had my dermatologist freeze 5 pre-cancerous spots off my face, although she said my skin looked really good otherwise. I’ve abandoned the ballcap and bought an Australian style western hat -Conner- with a 2.75″ brim all the way around and I’m wearing my neck gaiter more. My neighbor has had his nose pretty much completely removed and rebuilt by a plastic surgeon- seeing him go thru that was definitely a motivating factor for me to cover up more.

[jscott]

I’m guessing that getting fifteen minutes of sun for the sake of vitamin d. is safe.  Living in California, this happens as a matter of course. Jerry’s in Oregon, where fifteen minutes of sun means it’s been a good year (altho maybe this isn’t the time to make that joke. Hope things cool off soon, Jerry!) I also think that covering up and wearing a broad brimmed hat is a great way to go. At altitude or by the water or snow, I add sunscreen. Or if it’s 105 degrees.

[Jerry Adams]

Those days I was safe inside : )

I went out today and it was cloudy, no sun

[Marcus]

The full brim hat has been standard fare in my arsenal for a couple years now and cant imagine going without it. I need 1 application of sunscreen in the mid-morning (~10am) and another mid afternoon (~1pm) to completely eliminate sun tan when spending a full day outside in the sun (which is frequent here in So Cal). Sunscreen alone would require application at least 4-5x a day to be effective for me.

Also, my go-to hiking shirts are all long sleeve. Most of the year I use a Icebreaker Oasis series Merino/Poly blend in light gray. Its quite cool and the poly blend really makes it dry fast. probably 2x as fast as 100% wool.

For the very hottest times like we’re entering now, I switch to a Reel Legends Reel-Tec polyester shirt in bright white. Its sold by Beals which is based in Florida and its the thinnest, coolest, fastest drying fabric I’ve ever felt. Its actually cooler than going shirtless because its such a bright white it effectively reflects a lot of solar energy.

I recently got Rail Riders Bone Flats pants for my hot weather hiking pants. They have 2 mesh panels on both legs and have excellent airflow, almost as cool as shorts. I cant recommend them enough for hot weather pants.

I also wear sunglasses religiously. My eyes have no UV conditioning and I assume whatever is bad for your skin is probably bad for your retina

The solar umbrellas are the bomb in exposed sunny conditions. I have found it does not substitute a hat completely, but it makes wearing long sleeves and especially long pants much more tolerable. When you tilt the umbrella properly you can shade about 80% of your body, making long pants much cooler.

Last, I started wearing long clothing instead of sunscreen after I read that sunscreen prevents 2 of 3 types of UV – the 2 types that cause burning and cancer risk. However it does not stop the 3rd subtype of UV that causes skin aging – only clothing is thick enough to stop that, and I like having young looking skin. I could care less about a tan. Tan’s fade. Cancer and leather skin is forever

[David Thomas]

I was a Celt growing up in a Mediterranean climate before decent sunscreens or the practice of goofy hats on kids (nor peak baggers), so I get something carved off about once a year.

And now I’m an Alaskan, chronic short on Vitamin-D.

Feast or famine.

[HkNewman]

Full brim works for me as it lets any breeze hit 360° but don’t forget sand/rocks/gravel etc.. and especially snow can reflect that sunlight back so apply a bit of sunscreen to the face as well.

One thing I forgot was the neck and mid-clavicle (“collarbone”) region, so button downs left a “permanent tan” there (going with crew neck this year).

Incidentally the theory now is skin tanning is the body’s response to prevent underlying DNA damage (which can lead to skin cancer and other problems).   So the slogan is there’s no safe tan if reading the  dermatology literature to laypeople, beginning students in the health field, etc…

Of course if one has to, .. tanning pills contain concentrated carotene, the orange pigment in carrots with nada to do with sunlight.  This will give the appearance of a tan if done right (or the appearance of citrus fruit if overdone – see certain celebrities).

[Manfred]

Hetch Hetchy in Yosemite NP saw triple digit temperatures during the last couple of days. So we took it to the next level — a sun umbrella in addition to the dorky head. Fun fact: We could have sold our two umbrellas for insane amounts of money on that little stretch of trail between the dam and Wapama Falls. The highest offer was $1,000. NO kidding. People were desperate in the heat and had overestimated themselves – not bringing water (or not enouugh), no sun hat – as it is normally just a short 2 mile walk along the reservoir to Wapama Falls. With temperatures over 100F and the sun reflecting from the granite walls that trail was literally an oven and making it back the 2 miles to the car became incredibly hard for many people. Every single tree that put shade on the trail had a bunch of people taking a break and discussing how to continue. Whenever we passed such a location, people were approaching us and trying to buy the umbrellas from us – sometimes talking over each other and outbidding each other. What a crazy heat wave.

[obx hiker]

1. “Just had my dermatologist freeze 5 pre-cancerous spots off my face”

Pay attention! It can go from a little nitro gas freezing a few spots to mean ‘ol mr. Flouricil. Ask your dermo person about trying that for a month. It’s like someone got after your face with a propane torch, though you will be restored to youthful beauty afterwards. Oh and it hurts. And then there’s the problem of shaving; like over and around the scabs or blisters. But wait there’s more!  Hahaha. So wear your hat. And Dr. Adams the flouricil is like some sort of topical chemo therapy cream that brings the actinic keratoses to the surface and kills them or something and prevents cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma by removing the actinic keratoses and no they don’t have anything to do with acne but do have something to do with too much sun.

Still despite my general comeliness and now beautiful skin I don’t think I need the help of a dorky hat for birth control! Good One! But I do have a series of Dorky Hats. Something is working. Maybe it is the hats? hmmm

Back when travel was easier wayyyy back in 2019 when I last saw the beautiful WRR I hadn’t thought of sun gloves. I had the big hat and I had long sleeves and sunscreen but didn’t think of gloves. It was during that hot and sunny stretch around Labor Day and I was up up up! Oh my the hands got a LOT of sun

Thank you all for the recent informative thread about sun gloves. Now when I’m planning to hang out above the tree line I’ll also have a pair of those OR gloves.

Here’s what I use on a daily basis for sunscreen: Stops UVA and UVB

And in the evening:

You’ve only got one hide. Take care of it and don’t meet mean ol mr. flouricil!

 

 

[jscott]

oops, thought I was making a joke but it turns out my French is better than I thought!

[obx hiker]

You’re a pill Jeffrey. We’re all just trying (vainly) to keep up.

[Brad W]

I am sure if not already the study on how damaging most non-physical chemical sunblocks are to our skin will appear. I for one only use mineral blocks and clothing-mostly clothing.

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

I don’t doubt that sunblock is less effective than people would like to believe, but if such a study that proves sunblock is poor cancer protection hasn’t come out by now, I’m not sure it ever will.

I’m on team sleeves, pants and hats, but I tend to cover up a lot better on a hike than I do taking a walk around town. I’m 56 and my skin is pretty damaged with pre-cancerous lesions all over the place. My doctor, a red-head himself, didn’t seem very alarmed by these lesions. He said they’re no big deal, just freeze them off now and then.

[George W]

I had some melanoma removed back a couple of decades ago.

I sit in the shade and wear big hats and other protective garments now.

They cut out a lot of meat back then to make sure they got all the cancer.

[Brad W]

Part of what made me switch to a mineral block besides chemical blocks not working for me, what studies showing how much of the chemicals get into your blood stream at higher levels than allowable FDA limits. I am polluted enough, don’t need more if I can help it.

[Author]

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