"New" Locus Gear Dome Tent

[Jon Solomon]

The slice through the floor actually didn’t come from the internal poles, and, yes, I’ve had that happen to me on a first generation BD Lighthouse.
Of course the great thing about DCF is that field repairs are easy and instantaneous if you carry the repair tape.

Personally, I’ve tentatively concluded that frost condensation is an unavoidable fact of life in winter in any type of shelter (except a snow cave I guess), but some solutions are better than others.

(OT, I really wish that Roger’s tents had come to market and even tried to help arrange an Asian manufacturer. Maybe Massdrop would be a viable option today).

[Steve Collins]

Jon – I tend to agree. Only when it’s in the mid-teens to upper twenties and really dry have I had zero frost on the inside of my tent. And typically leave the door open a bit in that weather.

But hey, just part of winter camping! :)

– Steve

[Jon Solomon]

Here is a report from another user in Japan who is thrilled (so far) with the tent:
http://gennji2011.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-784.html
“ジェダイはまったく結露することもなく…ジェダイはこれで二回目に使用になりますが、いまのところ素晴らしい換気性能を誇っているようです。まだまだ検証は必要。
“there is absolutely no condensation with the Djedi…This is only the second time that I’ve used it so far, but up to now the breathability seems to be really impressive. Still, more tests are needed.”

[Jon Solomon]

FWIW That Japanese blog post I saw previously with a photo of a lacerated Djedi floor (due to unknown causes) has been edited to remove the offending photo… ;-)

[Roger Caffin]

Carbon reportedly isn’t as good at snow-load bearing as alloy (it will break whereas alloy will bend).
As usual, there is some truth there. IF you let a huge load of snow build up on the top of your tent, something’s gotta give. CF poles may snap, and Al poles may buckle and collapse. Neither set of poles are a lot of use after that unless you can repair them. Hum … repairing a snapped pole is not difficult, even in the field. You can carry special pole sleeves for this, or you can hack it in the field.

Remains of a sardine tin, some nylon cord, and some adhesive fabric. The repair lasted several weeks in Europe.

Caveat: a CF pole will have a very clean break, while an Al pole may be a bit mangled.

NOT my poles: broken remnants given to me by a store owner I knew very well.

Cheers

[Jon Solomon]

Having never had the experience myself, I could only go by what I’ve read or heard about. In stories about CF pole failure, I don’t remember any that mentioned snapping in a clean break. Perhaps those were from the earlier generation of CF poles that really were visibly inferior — even to a layman. Knowing that they snap is actually good news in a way. Wouldn’t that mean that a traditional aluminum pole repair sleeve would work flawlessly with CF (provided one has additional tape)?

[Roger Caffin]

Wouldn’t that mean that a traditional aluminum pole repair sleeve would work flawlessly with CF
Yup.
Field-tested too!

Cheers

[Jon Solomon]

LOL!

Good to know!

Actually, I remember now that the Fiberplex poles I had for the first generation BD Lighthouse splintered. Right before a storm rolled in.

[Roger Caffin]

Ah well, it does depend on what sort of CF poles they are.

I will only use 2D wrapped or filament-wound poles. These have been explained in another current thread. They snap pretty square.

The wrapped fabric poles are not as strong as the 2D wrapped ones, but they too probably snap fairly square, although I haven’t used them. They are ‘OK’, just not as good imho.

There are also cheap and nasty pultruded poles, some of which are actually glass fibre inside a coating of carbon dust. They may look just like the good CF poles from the outside, but they split full-length if you bend them very much. These poles may well splinter and shred fabric. It sticks in my memory that the Carbon Express arrow shafts are made this way, and were a disaster.

Cheers

[Sam Farrington]

Roger,
In break tests the Carbon Express were among the weakest, less than half the strength of what you use. But the breaks were perpendicular to the poles, no splitting, so am not sure they are pultruded. I put them away and have never used them. Pultruded tubes are available from Goodwinds and other kite sites, and they have split in break tests.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Sam

Possible. Different models, different years, different compositions.
My FG ones are from a few years ago – has Carbon Express upgraded? Dunno.

Cheers

[Sam Farrington]

Roger,
Re flexible tent poles in the .3-.4 inch range, I’ve not seen anything that compares in break tests to the strongest Victory and Gold Tip arrow shafts, except the new Easton pole that they claim is better because designed just for tents. (Note no product nos or specs here, as these shafts have been fully discussed on the forums) The new Easton is probably stronger, but weighs about 33% more. Haven’t tested it, but did test the previous Easton carbon FX poles about the same weight and they were not nearly as strong as the strongest Victories and Gold Tips. Nor was the even heavier Easton 344 alloy pole, for that matter.

I also tested the Fibraplex poles and found that some tested poorly, while others were at the top of the range. Apparently issues with consistency in manufacture. They have since beefed up their ferrules, which is obvious just from inspection, and claim to have beefed up the poles as well. However, ordering carbon poles just for testing got to be an overly expensive proposition.

Having gotten the best strength, weight, right stiffness and flex, from the Gold Tips and Victories, it made little sense to keep sinking money into it. Wanted some good carbon shafts to use for poles, so mission accomplished. I did find that there was a great deal of junk on the market, so buyers should beware. Even the Cabelas carbon shaft which was touted as multi-layer carbon broke relatively easily.

Agree with your observations about some of the woven fabric tubes, but have also found that they do not compete with the strongest Victory and Gold Tip shafts. Can’t confirm that they are 2D or filament wound, because am not technically equipped to do so, but the break strengths are at the highest end of the range. The Easton FX and 344 alloy poles both broke at substantially lower pressures. So think we have got what we need for carbon poles that are considerably lighter and less expensive than Easton products. For an all weather four season tent, the heavier and perhaps stronger Easton carbon pole might be worth considering.

Used the Victory shafts for poles for a Wilderness Equipment 2P Bug Dome, and the Gold Tips for a 1P One Planet Goondie modified to add space for 2 shetland sheepdogs, and had no breaks with either. That was the first time in many years of using carbon poles that there were zero breaks, so went from carrying an extra pole section to just a repair sleeve, which never got used. Give up while you’re ahead is the approach now.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Sam

I believe, on very limited info, that the Victory VForce and Gold Tip Hunters are what I call 2D and others call filament-wound. They would also be the same as the private label imports bought here in Oz which I am using. And that they all come from the machine whose illustration I posted earlier.

I have tested some of the Easton CF poles. Some of them at least were fabric wound. You simply can NOT get the fabric wound around the mandrel as tightly as the winding machine can wind filament, and that is why all wrapped-fabric poles are more flexible or weaker.

From memory, the Al poles are weaker on a wt-for-wt basis as the CF filament is stronger. But they were cheaper (here in Oz, anyhow).

Yes, you may find greater variability in wrapped fabric poles such as those from Fibraplex. The originals were hand-made – or hand-rolled, so what do you expect? Some have argued that being more flexible is good, but I cannot agree with that. I run my 2D-wrap poles with a controlled curvature which I KNOW stays within safe limits.

Ultimately, what anyone uses is entirely up to them. I just provide measured techie info.

Cheers

[Sam Farrington]

Thanks, Roger.  The ‘new’ Easton carbon poles are available from Quest Outfitters in Florida, also from Tent Pole Tech.  The smaller diameter is light, but has too much flex.  The heavier one looks like it would perform well, but at the 33% weight penalty I mentioned.  Ordered a couple of each from Quest, but see no reason to add 33% to pole weight when the stronger Gold Tip or Victory shafts are stiff enough, based on their use in the two tents I mentioned earlier.

I do agree with you about the pop-up domes like the Locus where the poles cross once at the top.  I once built a gothic arched dome frame of PVC pipe and strung it every which way to see if it could be made rigid.  Nothing worked:

This was the most unstable frame of any I tried, and actually think hoops instead of arches would have been an improvement.  Nevertheless, not much stability with designs where the poles cross once, the exception being where a transverse strut is added at the top along with front and rear vestibules, like a Hubba, which greatly add to the rigidity of the pop-up dome in the case of my One Planet Goondie.  The Locus does not have that, and the small awnings contribute very little to dry entry and exit.  Eric B, who experimented with poles crossed under a Tarptent Moment, once posted that the two hoop single cross pop-up dome is a basically flawed design.  For some reason, they are very popular in Japan, not sure why.  I still have a Snow Peak Lago 1P from Japan which is a similar design.

The best hoops for a tunnel I’ve tried were made of more flexible quarter inch fiberglass at the top center (from poles made for the Early Winters Omnipotent tunnel), but with the outer sections of the hoop made of stiffer carbon.   While only a tarp tent, it was very stable:

The tarp was a Gerry product, with pole sleeves sewn on, and extensions and bug netting (not shown) that could be pulled down over the front and rear guy lines.  The floor connected with snaps, so it could also be separated and used for lean-to shelter floors.  The big problems were not enough rain coverage at the tunnel ends, and worse, a lot of condensation that would develop inside the side walls, despite a lot of ventilation.  The photo was on Mount Madison, one of the peaks on the Presidential ridge north of Mount Washington.  It was before the hut season began, so the caretaker of the Madison Hut allowed us to pitch camp in the open.  Pretty windy up there, but no problem for the tarp tent.  Maybe I should have stuck with tunnels.  Oh well …

[Steve Collins]

Sam – I’ve not had a problem with the design of my Locus Gear Djedi – or similar Bibler or BD designs I’ve owned – when they are used for their intended purpose. And the Locus seems pretty stable when staked properly in my experience.

To each their own I suppose, I did a lot of research into tents that fit a niche need that I have and I’m rather thrilled to be using this tent right now.  Anyone want to buy a BD Hilight with carbon poles??

In fact, I’m headed out tomorrow on a 5 day snowshoe trip in low single digits F – happy to take more photos or test something specific.

Have a good one!

– Steve

[Eric Blumensaadt]

1. This is not a “dome” tent. It is a wedge tent.
2. This Locus tent, like most wedge tents, will immediately admit rain and snow on the floor when the door is opened in bad weather.

Thus it is, without a proper vestibule, a “FAILED DESIGN”. I know B/C my 1st real tent was a Jansport wedge tent in the ’70s. Aaaarrggghh!

[Roger Caffin]

Never mind the quality, feel the width …

Cheers

[Sam Farrington]

Eric, since there are no universally accepted terms, I look for what folks are most likely to understand, with as few words as possible.  Hence, pop-up for Roger, dome because that is roughly the shape, and single cross to define the pole configuration.  I had a Jan Sport wedge too, pretty heavy by today’s standards.

Steve, maybe you could share how the poles are inserted on the Locus tent.  Like the single wall BD’s, or something different.  Have not been able to determine from the photos, and prior requests have been to no avail.  The SP Lago has pole sleeves,  but also a full size throw-over fly – a challenge in high winds..

The winds around here can get brutal any time of year, although somewhat exaggerated by NH chauvinisti.  This week the local paper is at it again, ignoring the higher winds clocked not long ago in Australia at low altitude, and the winds on the American prairies can flatten tents used by car campers.  So, I think it’s not the altitude, or just the precip, but the windstorms that make short work of most ultralight tents.  And when thunder clouds and lightning are not present, it’s nice to be able to camp well above timber line, without having to drop a lot of altitude when the wind kicks up around bedtime, and still be backpacking light. It was reported recently that the wind on Mount Washington, at a mere 171 mph, no where near the Australian and US records, made the concrete observatory building vibrate and roar continuously like an earthquake.

‘Never mind the quality, feel the width …’  OK, that’s a little too cryptic for me, and at the same time, Eric wants semantic correctness.  But no complaints.  We’re all in the virtual freedom of the hills here.

[Roger Caffin]

Never Mind the Quality, Feel the Width is a British television sitcom first broadcast in 1967 as a single play in the Armchair Theatre anthology series, later becoming a series of half-hour episodes, which ran until 1971. A total of 40 episodes were made, all but one of them being believed to have aired.
Wikipedia

You probably need to be familiar with old British comedy. Think of it as something a con-man might say when trying to sell you some very poor quality fabric.

Cheers

[Franco Darioli]

For Sam :

[Roger Caffin]

Now try doing that in a storm, with strong wind and pouring rain.
Not to mention the really long and very bendy poles.
Chuckle.

Cheers

[Franco Darioli]

That was the reason Todd Bibler put those poles inside, so that you can get inside a sealed tent (out of the weather) and then put the poles in place .

Hint : you don’t have to assemble all of the pole first.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Dan D.,

The Djedi Dome (really a wedge tent) STILL has the non-protected door opening problem. As nice as it is I’d never buy it for just that reason. My time in the old ’70s Jansport wedge tent cured me forever from poorly designed flys with unprotected doors.

 

 

[Sam Farrington]

Thank you, Franco.  Don’t have Xray vision, but got a pretty good idea of what is going on.  Obviously, no crawling inside the tent to place the poles, as with the BD single walls. So an improvement or sorts, as the BD side entry tent provides at least a little cover over the entry, although rain will still pour in when the door is open.
It would not have been hard to design such a tent with at least the basic comforts:

Still, agree with Roger that pitching even this type of modified wedge tent in severe winds is not OK.  And regret downplaying precip vs wind.  The precip is what finishes you with hypothermia after the wind has rendered the tent useless.  It is a two-part mission accomplished by unseen evil forces.

“Never Mind the Quality, Feel the Width”  
Now that we lie shamelessly here in America, we don’t have to bother with sales pitch jargon. Just make it up as you go along.  Pants on fire.
Am a big fan of Basil Faulty and Hyacinth.

[Franco Darioli]

“Obviously, no crawling inside the tent to place the poles, as with the BD single walls”

Not sure what you mean there because that is how you can set up the iTent/Eldorado  if you stake down the corners first.

This one is a two door version , but the one door is really the same design as the Djedi.

With the single door, you push the pole tip into the corner and position the other end into the near corner.

The stakes will keep the floor shape to make it easier to do.

 

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