New Gore Shakedry for hiking and mountaineering

from Gore’s pressrelease:

GORE-TEX SHAKEDRY™
Light and Fast Hiking is a tough activity to dress for. It happens in the outdoors: away from the comforts of home or the easy access to shelter and warmth. After seeing how successful GORE-TEX SHAKEDRY™ has been in equipping cyclists and runners for their sports, GORE® Wear has evolved their award-winning technology to meet the needs of hikers, too.
With the ability to travel light, fast and far through nature while staying fully protected from whatever Mother Nature has in store, this jacket will change how hikers approach their adventures.
The latest trends suggest that modern day-hikers have more in common with trail runners than the heavily laden multi-day adventurers. As such, GORE® Wear set out to answer the need for lighter and more technically advanced clothing in this area by introducing the new generation of GORE-TEX SHAKEDRY™ jackets.
We recognize that space in a hiker’s pack is at an absolute premium. And as one of the lightest jackets on the market, with GORE-TEX SHAKEDRY™ there is no need to compromise between weight and protection.
GORE-TEX SHAKEDRY™ was, and continuous to be, a revolutionary development in membrane construction. By eliminating the face fabric, the jacket is lighter and thinner than other outer layers, and the creation of a persistent beading surface means that the jacket sheds water continuously. No moisture build-up means it’ll never soak through.
Taking our existing SHAKEDRY™ jackets as a starting point, the engineers at GORE® Wear then tailored its features to the unique needs of a hiker. This includes a stronger membrane and backing material for abrasion-resistance and backpack accommodation.
When you’re hunkered down on a mountaintop, you won’t have to worry about your jacket ripping on the nearest rock. Likewise, the SHAKEDRY™ jacket will hold up just fine when used with a fully loaded daypack. In fact, thanks to the new backing material, the hiking shells from GORE® Wear can withstand 30% more tearing force than the existing SHAKEDRY™ jackets.
Additionally, in order to make wearing a pack more comfortable, the seams on the jacket have been fully redesigned with hikers in mind. To avoid chafing, the shoulder seam has been eliminated altogether, and the seams around the torso have been thoughtfully placed in a way that they don’t interfere with the chest and waist straps of a pack. Pocket placement has also been optimized to accommodate a pack, ensuring you can still reach your essentials when loaded down.
Finally, GORE® engineers looked to winter jackets with snow skirts for inspiration on how to keep the jacket from bunching up. As a result, these jackets feature a secure and low profile hidden drawcord around the mid section that is accessible through the front pockets. This allows the jacket to move naturally at the hips, while still keeping the elements at bay and maintaining the hiker’s core body temperature.

Key Messaging
+ +30% more tear strength compared to running and road cycling jackets
+ Appropriate ruggedness for aerobic activities and lightweight hiking
+ Persistent beading surface does not soak up rain/snow maintaining the lightweight and breathability
+ Durably waterproof
+ Totally windproof
+ Lightest and most breathable GORE-TEX® laminate with RET < 3
+ Low pack volume
+ Fast garment and base layer dry-out time
+ Reliably protects from rain and wind chill
+ Minimal garment weight gain as water rolls off
+ Minimizes overheating
+ Reduced chilling effect during/ after activity resulting from wetted out face fabric
+ Can be stowed away easily
Potential End Uses
+ Lightweight / Fast Hiking
+ Trail / Mountain Running
+ MTB
Technologies:
GORE-TEX SHAKEDRY™ Technology
Highlight Products:
100467 GORE® H5 GORE-TEX SHAKEDRY™ Hooded Jacket
100468 GORE® H5 Women GORE-TEX SHAKEDRY™ Hooded Jacket

Looks good in theory – no face fabric to wet out. But I think that people here are experienced enough to be a bit cynical about the latest “miracle” WBF fabrics for active wear, so at that price I suspect that most will be waiting to see the long-term reviews..

Rather oddly for a product that’s being hyped as an ultralight breakthrough, I can’t find any reference to the actual weight in their marketing materials. Have I missed something?

No. I can’t find it either.

One European online retailer listed weight as 133 grams.

On this page: https://www.bikeandrunplanet.com/gore-cycling-wear-uomo/off-road/giacche/gore-gore-tex-shakedry-giacca-con-cappuccio-black-p-14259.html?language=en&cPath=338_435

Click on the “Technologies” tab in the listing. It’s the last frame of the animation showing the jacket being folded up into itself. Right after that “133 grams” shows on the screen.

30% tougher than the older generation of shakedry doesn’t seem like much, considering how fragile those are reputed to be. I imagine Richard Nisley will put one to his new testing protocol so we’ll have excellent numbers regarding breathability. Gore are saying RET < 3. Not sure where that puts it in comparison to the MVTR numbers out there right now. Gotta be pretty good, though.

$400.00 is pretty darn expensive, compared to competitors in the  permanent DWR category:

Columbia Outdry Ex Featherweight:  retail is $200

Marmot Phoenix: $175.00, closeout at REI right now for $90

Marmot Eclipse:  $259.00 retail.

But this IS Gore we’re talking about after all.  The brand carries a price premium.  It would be interesting to see BPL do a long term test of all these jackets like they’re been doing with breathable lightweight insulating jackets. (Arcteryx Proton LT being the latest installment.)

My understanding is that the fact gore running options are significantly more breathable than the Columbia backpacking option (which I own and like, but it’s breathability is lowish). It’s also lighter if that 133g (for a size m?) is to be believed. So if the good breathability of the running shells translates to the backpacking shell, perhaps the steep price will be worth it for some.

You also have to see price in perspective: I bought a rain jacket in 2004 at a price of ± $350-400. I still have it and though the zippers from the pit zips have delaminated around the summer of 2017, for the rest the jacket looks, functions and feels like new. Though over all those years, it has costed me ± $30/year.

You might buy a $200 jacket instead but if you need to replace it after 5 years, it has costed you actually $40/year.

Also, there are bound to be more choices coming soon and I’m sure some will end up on sale.

On sale at WIGGLE I have bought from them before with no problems and free shipping.Still it’s more than I am willing to pay

Link, I think that one is not the new Shakedry version, but a more conventional fabric-faced jacket.

If it’s not keep an eye on Wiggle they always have really good deals.

From Gore customer support (bold is their’s, and I asked for the weight of a medium):

I’m so sorry, we only have a sample of the GORE® H5 GORE-TEX Active Hooded Jacket in a size XXL which weighs in at 10.5 oz.

H5 Active is a different model than newer H5 Shakedry.

Oops. I asked the wrong question. Or actually, the correct question, just about the wrong item.

As much rain as we’ve had in N Ga the past 2 years, a rain jacket with Shakedry is much needed!

Perhaps this one from Gore at 4 oz:
https://www.backcountry.com/gore-wear-r7-gore-tex-shakedry-hooded-jacket-mens?skid=GWR0035-PACBL-S

Or Arc Teryx similar entry: https://arcteryx.com/us/en/shop/mens/norvan-sl-hoody

Bill – Other than the H5 linked in the first post, Gore Shake Dry isn’t “rated” for use with a backpack.  It just isn’t durable enough for Gore to say that it’s OK to use a backpack with it.  Of course some people have used them (Arcteryx Norvan SL or The North Face Hyperdry) backpacking with good results, but Gore won’t warranty them if they’ve been used for backpacking – officially they are for running or cycling.

Of course since this jacket is coming out, I expect to see more offerings that are rated for backpacking use.

No experience with H5 but have experience with ShakeDry on a lighter weight fabric in the ArcTeryx Novan SL, I found the Novan SL had around the same moisture build-off on my Montbell windshirt when active… which is pretty amazing, and ShakeDry works really well. I have used it with a backpack without issue, but I won’t use it off trail.  The earlier version had serious problems leaking through the zipper.  This years model has been updated and suppose to be better.  I sent my in (ArcTeryx swapping free of charge).  Later this summer I will know if the zipper is fixed.

Sounds like no one has sprung for one of these yet. Based on the advertising copy from both companies, I would guess that the Shakedry Peak by Montbell is made with the same fabric. They are specifying MVTR thus: Breathability: 80,000g/m2/24hrs (JIS L-1099 B-1 method)

https://www.montbell.us/products/disp.php?cat_id=25013&p_id=1128632&gen_cd=1

I’m not aware of any company claiming B-1 test results better than this for any fabric. In light of that figure, as well as Mark’s comments regarding Shakedry (post above) it would be very interesting to see this fabric head to head against windshirt fabrics in the MVTR + simulated wind test that Stephen has been using to test windshirts recently.

Both Gore with the H5 Shakedry, and Montbell with the Peak Shakedry, say backpacks are OK but also mention durability limitations. Gore vaguely mentions fully loaded daypacks while Montbell is a bit more forthcoming:
<p style=”padding-left: 40px;”>This product is made without a face fabric, uniquely constructed with the waterproof/breathable GORE-TEX membrane as the outer layer.
To avoid exposing the outer layer to friction, keep your backpack as lightweight as possible to avoid exposing the outer layer to friction. When the fabric is exposed to friction it can develop a shiny appearance. Although this has no effect on the performance of the membrane, applying excessive friction to the membrane may cause fabric ripping and result in water penetration. DO NOT place this product near sharp objects or apply excessive force.

Due to the unique construction of the Peak Dry Shell, Montbell recommends that additional care and maintenance be taken with your Peak Dry Shell.
Because the outer layer of jacket lacks a face fabric, the waterproof/breathable membrane is exposed. One characteristic of the membrane is that it will readily absorb oil, including sunscreen, cosmetics, the oils that our bodies naturally produce, etc.
To keep your jacket performing as long as possible, Montbell recommends washing your jacket more frequently than you would a standard rain jacket.
The Peak Dry Shell can be cared for at home in the washing machine, but we do recommend taking some extra steps.
Wash the Peak Dry Shell using warm water on a gentle/delicate cycle with zippers closed and using a net. The net will help protect the membrane from friction. Tumble dry on normal heat or line dry in the shade.</p>
My reading: it is signifcantly more durable than DriDucks, durable enough for UL pack use with reasonable care but probably on-trail only and will last years if additional care is taken. It also might be as breathable as popular windshirts like the Houdini.

Because the outer layer of jacket lacks a face fabric, the waterproof/breathable membrane is exposed. One characteristic of the membrane is that it will readily absorb oil, including sunscreen, cosmetics, the oils that our bodies naturally produce, etc.

Sounds completely useless to me. I can understand why walkers are reluctant to buy it.
A futile effort to keep Gore’s membranes in business against the competition.

Cheers

Seems as though Montbell are being more open than Gore. A fabric that can’t survive a bit of sweat is hardly attractive.

But some people here seem to like their Columbia OutDry garments, which are based on the same principle. Do they need the same kind of babying?

Roger – at the moment I’m going with your approach of a non-breathable fabric with good mechanical venting. So what are these competing products of which you speak? I’m not aware of any so-called breathable fabric that is unambiguously better than the higher-end Gore products…

Hi Geoff

My thoughts, or opinions, are that the phrase ‘breathable/waterproof’ is a straight out marketing LIE. There ain’t no such thing. Come in suckers.

Of course, as fashion wear that stuff is probably fine, and that is probably the intended market. Much bigger market, and lots more $$. Fine, but no-one ever accused me of being ‘fashionable’ :)

In warmer weather I just wear my Taslan windshirt and get wet. No problems. If the sun comes out, I dry off. If it stays murky all day, we move fast (eat high calorie food on the run, and keep all the rest of our clothing dry. Then we get into our tent.

In cold wet weather I use a silnylon poncho over me and my pack. That sheds water, keeps my pack dry, and actually keeps me warm. A little fug develops inside.

Mind you, some of the UK Paramo/Nikwax stuff is not bad in light rain when it is cold and you are moving. Very functional, but not quite ‘UL’.

Cheers

I am not really interested in it personally but I like that openness from Montbell.

Would it be that the sweat or oils mostly inhibit the breathability?
Keeping mostly the waterproofness intact.
Of course there is still the mechanical damage that friction might do to the waterproofness.

@Ito

No, in fact it can be the opposite. The original Gore membrane relied on the surface tension of Teflon to keep water out. Any oils kill that property stone dead. The V2 Gore membrane is actually a thin layer of PU over the Teflon, which is why it is little more breathable than any other competing product. What this new Shake-Fry stuff uses, I do not know, but the membrane is exposed to damage on the outside. Street wear.

Note: Gore can provide figures showing Goretex is much better, but so can other vendors for their products. In reality, it all depends on which test you use. Naturally, every vendor picks the one which gives them the best results. Lots of competing tests available.

Cheers

I’m not sure why folks feel like they have to be beholden to greedy af companies like Gore? If you can sew or learn to sew, and are willing to do a little experimentation, you can create a better fabric.

Take a 30 or 40D, uncoated, pretty breathable nylon or polyester fabric. Thin silicone to the weight ratio that Richard Nisley had mentioned for retreating silicone treated fabrics, or thereabouts and treat fabric.

Then, to that outer fabric, sew 1443R “Kite” tyvek.

You now have a WPB fabric that will not require a DWR for a rather long time, and that will be quite durable and breath better than eVent while being fully waterproof.  It will just need a very occasional degreasing, which is easy to do with hot water and good detergent soap (then rinse very well, and hang dry). Maybe after a couple years, you might have to spray the nylon with some silicone spray.  Maybe after a few years after that, you might have to re thin some silicone and reapply.

You can literally make such a durable, near permanent DWR fabric for about 9 to 11 dollars a yard (for both fabrics, silicone, and thinning solvent), at around 3 to 4 oz/yd2 weight of combined materials. DIY Gear supply regularly has 30 and 40D uncoated and non calendared nylon for very reasonable. I just bought some 40D uncoated, non calendared nylon there for around 3.25 a yard I think. Dutchware use to have uncoated, lightweight polyester fabrics (haven’t checked if they still do though).

Screw Gore and their ridiculous prices and notorious corporate strong arming.
(A)