New Copper Spur HV UL2 – what's better?

[David K.]

I’m 6’2″  and my girlfriend is 5’11”.  Unless we’re spooning all night, it’s tight.  I barely fit on a 25″ wide pad without my arms falling off.  So with 2 wide pads, lying side by side we’re right up against the walls.  Space vs weight, I guess somethings gotta give.

Any tent manufacturers out there that let you customize?  Similar to what Enlightened Equipment does with their quilts?  That would be awesome!

[Ethan A.]

Every shelter reflects a mix of tradeoffs. You just have to choose which compromises you’re comfortable with.
After trying narrower, my wife (5 ft 6) and I (6 ft) avoid shelters narrower than 50 in. head and foot, meaning shelters that taper to below 50 in. at the foot end are out, and that’s assuming there’s decent vestibule space (also prefer 25 in. sleep pads which offer us a better night’s sleep at the cost of very little weight). Minimum 84 in. length but 90 in. is even better for some more internal storage. There are enough 2P and light 3P 50 in. and wider shelters, freestanding and trekking pole supported, that you have plenty of choice.
We prefer muted light earth tones. They offer pleasing internal light, help preserve the wilderness experience for others, work better for the occasional stealth camping and do double duty as a blind for nature watching and photography. We only consider brightly colored shelters for winter. If you’re concerned about being found in an emergency, just bring one brightly colored multi-use item, whether that’s a side of your quilt, the outside or inside of a jacket or a bright waterproof cloth for organizing gear or food.
Regarding the Big Agnes CS series having walls that are too sloped and less interior space, I thought that was true of the old CS UL3, but the new one seems to offer nice interior space. Don’t like the vent placement, but otherwise looks like a nice shelter.

Anyone know what denier fabric Big Agnes is using on the new CS HV UL tents?

FYI if of interest Tarptent is coming out with a Saddle 3P but it may not be available for some time.

[bradmacmt]

My wife and I had a 2013 MSR Hubba Hubba that was uber-liveable for the two of us, me 5-10″, she 5-9″. It’s 49″W x 84″L x 40″T. We both used 25″ wide Thermarests with it, though they inflate less wide than that. Perfect fit in the old Hubba Hubba. However, we wanted a lighter tent.

So, the search began. I briefly considered the CSUL2 HV. My wife and her girlfriend use the older version of this tent, and it’s a bit tight volume wise. They don’t seem to mind, but my wife has commented how much better she likes the volume of the MSR.I also find the BA CS materials a bit light (those trade-offs again), and the guying slightly more extensive than the Hubba. Also, as stated, I have no confidence in the viability of the new vent. They were obviously try to save weight by making it smaller, and more effective by putting it up higher, but I think they got carried away and made a major blunder.

I Initially ordered a NEMO Dagger 2P. I really like NEMO, and have a Hornet 1P for solo trips (fantastic tent!). The Dagger is quite long at 90″, and is nicely wide at 50″, and its vestibules are huge. It also has tremendous head room at 42″. However, I decided I didn’t need the volume and extra staking (weight) of the vestibules, which are also going to be a bit tough to close from inside the tent, they’re so large. All our backpacking is in grizzly country, so we always keep our packs away from the tent, hence no need for overly large vestibules. I also don’t like the door orientation, almost forcing the occupants to sleep head to toe. And, the Dagger is 2.5 ounces heavier than advertised. Still, a fine tent, but enough mitigations that I passed on it.

Soooo, I returned the Dagger to REI and bought the MSR Hubba Hubba NX. It’s actually lighter than advertised by 1 ounce, which is refreshing. By ditching cords that will not be used for guying, the extra stakes for that guying, and swapping the MSR stuff sacks for two Tarp Tent stuff sacks (one for each my wife and I to split the tent), and a TT stake sack, I got the Hubba to 3lb’s 7.3 ounces. I added a Tyvek “Footprint”, and all-up weight is 3lbs 12.7 ounces. That’s 12.4 ounces less than the previous Gen Hubba Hubba, which is a nice weight savings.

I have zero complaints about the Hubba Hubba NX. It’s well-thought-out. The new vestibule entry zips are so simple-smart, I wonder why no one thought of them before? Venting is unmatched by others in its class, and far better than the previous Gen. Materials are more robust than the BA tents (which obviously increases weight – I’m willing to accept that trade-off in a 2P tent). I also appreciate the thoughtful integration of solid fabric in the tent body, rather than all mesh. The color is a bit more putty-grey than what the advertising pics show, and overall the interior feeling is as good as any tent I’ve used. The basic Hubba design is pretty much the gold standard for a 2P, 3 Season tent. It’s remarkable how often it’s copied, from Big Agnes to Tarp Tent. It works.

Obviously every tent is a compromise weighted one direction or another. The trick is deciding which features you “need” and which compromises you can live with. For my wife and I the Hubba hits the sweet spot.

[J-L]

How are the lightweight fabrics in these tents holding up? Waterproof? Durable enough? Capable for summer backpacking trips to the High Sierra, Rockies, etc?

Big Agnes doesn’t usually list the fabric denier of their tents. For the Copper Spur HV series, they only say that the “random ripstop nylon” increases fabric tear strength by 25%. Sounds interesting, but 25% compared to what? I’d like some clearer data, Big Agnes :) Other than the fabric, the Copper Spur HV tents look nice. I’ve sewn up a couple of tents with a similar zipper design – it works fine, so I see no issue; however, you don’t get the redundancy benefit of a typical double-slider design (if one zipper slider breaks, you can always remove it and use the other one to zip up). I do wonder if the new pole structure Big Agnes has adopted in their “high-volume” tents will compromise wind performance. The walls look rather vertical, but maybe it doesn’t matter in reality.

Nemo and MSR both have tents with 7D outers now (the Nemo Hornet Elite and MSR Carbon Reflex). There are a few tents with 10D outers (Nemo Hornet). And 15D and 20D seems pretty common (MSR Freelites and MSR Hubba NX, among many others). Most of these only have HH ratings of 1200mm.

I’m just curious as to the reality of these fabrics. It’s interesting that the cottage guys are sticking with 30D silnylon. And the big companies are moving to lower and lower deniers.

[bradmacmt]

Big Agnes does indeed use very light fabrics. MSR makes their weight/strength compromise a bit on the heavier side, which suits me for a two person tent where the weight is split. Not sure why backpacking here in the Rockie’s or Sierra’s should matter. The wear will be on the floor, and I can’t fathom not using a foot print of some sort with today’s light fabric tents (if you’re thinking rock/floor wear).

[J-L]

MSR makes their weight/strength compromise a bit on the heavier side, which suits me for a two person tent where the weight is split.

Maybe on the Hubba NX series of tents (which uses 20D fly and 30D floor). But MSR is using 15D fly/15D floor on the Freelite, and 7D fly/15D floor on the Carbon Reflex.

I have never used fabrics that light in a tent before, and very few reviews go into detail on how the tents do in stormy weather. I only referenced the Rockies and High Sierra as a typical example of high-altitude summer backpacking conditions. So how do the 7D, 10D, and 15D flys handle wind and rain? Stronger than they appear? I agree about the floors – a lightweight groundsheet would help if durability or wear is an issue.

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