Need your advices for winter

Bonjour Romain, and welcome…

A tarp won’t provide any insulation above your tent so, if you’re concerned about the cold, you’d be much better off putting the weight of the tarp into a better puffy (insulation) layer or a warmer quilt or sleeping bag.  The other thing to remember when sleeping in the cold is that your insulation under you is almost as important as the insulation above you.

I think if you describe the gear (sleeping pad, sleeping bag/quilt, and clothing layers) you’re planning to take we might be able to help you more.

Hi Kevin and thank you for your answer, my sleeping bag is a sub-zero one (°C of course) I’m not an ultralight radical because I also value my comfort but I thought about using the clothes I would carry as a layer to insulate me from the ground. My sleeping pad is a bit too heavy, thinking about buying a foam one so if you have one to reccomend me (not something which costs a fortune) I’d be more than thankful.

@ Roman,

You say winter in Europe but don’t say much about the expected weather. It seems that you are most concerned about 1) sleeping warm enough in your sleep system and 2) the storm worthiness of your tent.

In reference to 1) in addition to Kevin’s advice, I would add the question whether you think you will be camping on snow? If so, you will definitely need an insulating pad under you sleeping bag.

In reference to 2) will you always be camping below the tree line and have the ability to choose your campsite and put your tent in the most protected area possible. I think the Big Agnes 3 season tents when properly staked out are fine for 3 season and some shoulder season use.

Also, how long is your trip?  For short trips in winter, the weather forecasts are usually good enough to choose an appropriate shelter. If the trip is longer, you probably want to carry a more storm worthy shelter. If the wind were to start blowing a lot of snow, you might be better off under a pyramid tarp or a one- person four-season tent. For my winter camping in the Sierra Nevada here in California, depending on the expected weather I take a Mountain Laurel Designs DuoMid tarp or a Hilleberg Akto or, when a storm is expected, a 4 Season Big Agnes Tent. 90% of the time I take he DuoMid.

If you’re concerned about cost, the cheapest way to add insulation under your existing sleep system is a closed-cell foam (CCF) pad.  Fancy ones from Therm-a-rest can be $20 (Ridgerest) to $35 (Z-Lite) but, here in the USA, Walmart and budget stores have CCF pads for $8.

Even before that, bring a really warm hat you can sleep in.

In the skills-not-gear area:  Don’t set up camp in a low spot.  Cool air pools in low areas, especially on cloudless, windless nights.   Just being 5-10m higher on a low rise can make it 5C-8C warmer.  Look around and think, “If the lake/stream/pond rose 10 meters, where would I want to be?” and camp there.

Also: if you can camp under trees, you and your tent will lose less radiant heat to deep space (actually, it’s that the tree radiants that infrared back at you).  That makes you a bit warmer and greatly reduces the condensation on your tent and gear.

Keep warm clothes – at least an extra layer for your top, bottom and feet – close by to put on at night if you feel cold or if the temperatures drop.

Make notes on the temperatures, what you used, and how well it worked.  Over time, you’ll develop a good sense of what you require to sleep comfortably.

Realize that in winter, you have less daylight and more night.  Do you have activities (eBook, music, etc) to pass the time inside your sleeping bag?  Just sitting still watching the scenery or the stars may not keep you warm enough once you stop moving.

In in winter, consider the batteries in all your gear (water purification, headlamp, etc).  Lithium batteries work down to -40C but alkaline batteries fail not much below freezing.

If you cook with butane canisters, look at any of the many threads on BPL about how to keep them going at -10C, -20C and even -30C (I’ve done that).

Spending a night outside on your porch at home is always a good idea as you learn to winter camp – if you’re not comfortable there, you won’t be comfortable in the higher elevations in the wilderness.

Hi Romain, welcome!  Using clothing (fleece jacket, long johns, thermal hat, etc.) as part of your sleep system is a good idea, as you can wear your camp clothes to bed and boost the warmth of your sleep system. Just keep a couple things in mind: 1. when hiking, you’ll be generating a lot of heat.  Depending on the weather, I generally hike in either a long sleeve shirt, or shirt plus rain jacket/windbreaker. Start out cold so when your body heats up you don’t start sweating and soak your clothes.  That way, when you get to camp, your body will be dry, and your camp/sleep clothes will be dry.  Hats are great for cold weather hiking because you can easily adjust and remove them to regulate your body temp without taking your pack off.  2. Don’t wear so many clothes to bed that you constrict your circulation or compress your sleeping bag’s insulation.

As far as pads go, Thermarest has a variety of less expensive ones that might work for you.  If you’re camping in 30 degree Fahrenheit and above, you can probably get by with something around an R-value of 3.0. Mid 30s-40s, you could probably use a decent foam pad (R value approximately 2-2.5) that will be light, durable, but not particularly comfortable.  Below 30, you would want an inflatable with R value of 4.0 to 6.0.  I believe Thermarest makes some thinner, self-inflating (foam + air pads) that retail in the $100 range that will give you a bit more comfort than a regular foam pad, a bit more warmth, and decent weight.  Thicker inflatables have the potential to be more comfortable, warmer (due to reflective layers), but are also typically much more expensive.  Many find the Thermarest Neoair Xlite to be a good all around pad for both warm and cold months (can be supplemented with a foam pad underneath), and I’m sure others could recommend pads from different manufacturers.