Need help buying a Pack

Elemental Horizons Kalais, they have attachment loops for tying on additional things and 3 side webbing compression straps.

are you going to be hiking or climbing with this pack?

that makes a HUGE difference

as does the FIT

;)

HMG Ice Pack – although I used a Porter with external pocket and two Zimmerbuilt waterbottle pockets on a glacier trip and was able to carry skis, crampons, and snowshoes with it (all at the same time!)

I will add another plug for HMG. I have a summit pack for short trips, and a Porter 3400 for everything else. Workmanship is top notch, and design is well though out. Their customer service is moderate, and overall makes for a good product. They are expensive compared to other pack builders of similar materials, but highly recommended. (and I have NO affiliation with HMG!)

again … it all comes back to “are you climbing with it” or just hiking with it …

and if your climbing is it mostly snow and ice, or will it constantly be rubbing around abrasive rock …

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Mountaineering-Backpack-Reviews/Hyperlite-Mountain-Gear-3400-Ice-Pack

note that outdoorgear lab tests all their gear for weeks if not months constantly, they buy all their own gear … and they arent afraid to call out any issues they see

several BPLers have had the same experience with cuben packs on actual rock use as well

heres a fellow BPLers take on it …

In the first half of 2015 I’ve gone out of my way to beat up on cuben fiber whenever I have the chance.  I don’t think cuben makes sense from a cost/function perspective, but my primary objection is that companies like Hyperlite Mountain Gear have begun to use it as a sole talking point, rather than discussing how they have nice packs which happen to be made of good fabric.

The 150 denier hybrid cuben pictured here is good fabric.  The cuben backing is very waterproof, and the tight polyester face fabric is impressively tough for what is by any standard light duty stuff.  I can’t think of anything of a comparable denier which comes close, but nonetheless there just isn’t that much material there.  As seen above, holes in the poly face are easy to come by, the while the cuben backing does put up a fight, the package just does not stand up to abrasion very well.  Tear strength is pretty good, but abrasion is the source of every hole I’ve ever put in a pack.  If you don’t beat on your gear regularly this heavier hybrid will last a long time, but with other options that weight almost the same, have exactly the same performance properties, and cost half as much I just don’t see a reason for cuben hybrid, other than fashion novelty.

 

http://bedrockandparadox.com/2015/07/05/pack-materials-redux/

im sure its a fine fabric and pack for less aggressive environments, but for constant rock use theres a reason why folks use high denier nylon or cordura

;)

Thanks everyone for the replies.

I will be using this mostly for alpine snow, but occasionally on rock routes. So its probable I’ll be setting it on rocks and such.

The Hyperlite does look nice but the durability issue, that’s a lot of money for a questionable pack material.  and the outdoorgearlab review says the closure system is finicky.  Can those that have it comment? Seems like three buckles and the velcro would be pretty annoying.  My current BD Epic has a drawstring which I really like for simplicity.

The Elemental Horizons looks interesting, I’ve never heard of the company before though.  Good quality?

While not as easy as a drawstring, the HMG rolltop is far from finicky. Just make sure the air is out, lineup and close the Velcro, roll it, and clip it. Sometimes I just clip the top buckles like a dry bag instead of buckling it to the sides.

HMG also offers a full woven dyneema upgrade to any pack for a custom charge. That would alleviate any durability issues and retain nearly full warerproofing.

Disclaimer – my spouse works for HMG and I love my Porter 4400

The Elemental Horizon Kalais is a great pack and gets very good reviews, just do a search on BPL to see. I have owned one for several years and love it ( there are different choices of material ect. that you choose for your pack and Mathew is great to work with if you have questions or have a special request) , here are some reviews including Will Rietveld a past writer and reviewer on BPL,  SGT. ROCKS REVIEW and VIDEO and of course Alex’s(who posted aboves)review The Search for the Perfect Pack   . I have never owned one but I have been reading good things about KATABATIC GEARS PACKS

a proper climbing pack for rock (with some snow.ice) requires at minimum

• 210+ D nylon or gridstop with a thicker or double on high wear areas (bottom, back), preferably much thicker or durable
• clean slimmer profile with minimal mesh or pockets (theyll catch on something)
• higher centre of balance
• harness compatible (will sit a bit higher)
• some flexibility (if its too rigid its hard to make some climbing moves)
• rope carry strap
• ice tools loops
• low profile hip belt
• should be fairly minimal or very strippable in design

now folks have used any type of packs for easy climbing … but those arent “ideal” situations … if you are going to buy a pack for climbing then get one that can climb well and has the needed features

which brings me to another point …

you absolutely need to try the pack to make sure it FITS properly … an ill fitting pack hiking is a pain, an ill fitting loaded pack when climbing can be DEADLY ….

if it throws you off balance for a move at a critical point, you may well go tumbling down …

when i try on climbing packs not only do i fully load em walking around the store … i also go to the climbing wall and do laps on easy stuff with em loaded (dont cut off the tags yet)

to be blunt … to have significant weight savings youll need to sacrifice something … either in terms of durability, pay more for expensive materials, go frameless, go with UL hiking packs that may not be as suitable, etc …

personally i just picked up a dead bird alpha 45 which weights ~700g … but thats a pretty minimal alpine pack thats VERY fit specific … my old osprey mutant 38 weighted ~1250g, but got down to < 1000g stripped …

my advice is to go try on every pack you can get your hands on and find the best fit ( i would never have bought the dead bird if i couldnt try on friends who had it fully loaded, the 40%+ off didnt hurt either)

PS the kalais mentined above comes with 70D sides by default … which to be blunt will blow apart eventually on rock … there is a 210D option but thatll weight more i suspect

;)

That is why I pointed out the choice of fabric on the kalais including water bottle pockets and the hip belt pockets are removable and as Alex points out in his review ” It is a taller and narrower bag ” and I agree, it says on their site

How much weight does the Dyneema X fabric upgrade add to a pack?How much weight is added to the pack depends on the amount of fabric used. On the Aquilo pack, you have the option to add Dyneema X in two areas: the external pockets, and the pack body. Generally upgrading to Dyneema X adds about 2.5 oz per area used. So if you choose to upgrade both the external pockets and pack body on an Aquilo pack you will increase the total pack weight by about 5 oz. The Kalais and Aduro SL packs follow this same general rule, but only offer the option to upgrade one area of the pack, so you can expect about a 2.5 oz weight increase on these packs.
I am not a climber, but seeing that you are Kristen I am sure you will be able to find something that works for you, but getting more choices by more people is good, and look at the other pack I posted (but again have no experience with just heard good things about)Katabatic Gear, hopefully more people will have some good ideas for you

I love my HMG’s (a porter and windrider), but for ice and alpine I’ve always reached for my Cold Cold World Valdez. I had them build it in a stripped down version (no daisy chains, removable backpad, etc.), and the weight came out quite reasonably. I think they are a screaming deal for the price.

My all 210 dyneema Kalais was 4 oz. heavier than standard.

Good discussions and data on this thread!

I have my HMG Summit pack in the woven Dyneema that has held up great to the last 6 months of use. It is definitely rugged, and pretty light.  I would say this solves the durability issues that people are afraid of with regular dyneema.

My Wife has a standard HMG Southwest 3400 and it has held up just fine.  While I would not haul it up a crag with a bunch or pointy gear in it, it works great for its intended uses.  If needing to do that go with the woven dyneema for sure.  I have no doubt that this will last many years for its intended use.  Everything is a compromise, and the Southwest, Porter, and Summit pack have fit the bill for us.