Nail Stakes for Ice

[Tyler S]

The situation is camping on ice. Not frozen ground, but 2′ of ice as in on a frozen lake.  Snow conditions are not conducive to dead-men, so something that penetrates into the ice is ideal.  I have used Aluminum gutter nails in the past and they worked, but 4 out of the 6 ended up bent and mangled beyond repair.  I need something with more stiffness.

So I’m about to order some Vargo Ti Nails and noticed I already have a steel version of them on my work bench.  Pole barn nails are way lighter than I expected and the specs are shockingly similar to the titanium nails.

Pole Barn Nail: 152 mm, 4 mm dia, 19 grams – FREE

Ti Nail Peg: 152 mm, 5mm dia, 14 grams – $27/six

Bringing 6 stakes equates a weight penalty of 30 grams, roughly 1 ounce.  I can live with that.  But is there something else I’m missing here?  Has anyone else used standard 6″ pole barn nails as rugged tent pegs?  Again, I’ve used the lightweight aluminum gutter spikes in the past and they just were not stiff enough for hammering into ice.  I assume Ti or Steel will get the job done.

[Kevin Babione]

A couple of things:

• How are you driving them into the ice?
• Perhaps more importantly, how do you get them out?  They will generate heat going in and then be stuck fast – especially with the gripping ridges
• Do you need more than the nail head to keep your guylines from slipping off?  A lake can be a windy place…

Freeze a plastic bucket of water (I’m thinking of 1/2 gallon ice cream container) at home and try it before you’re out on the lake.

[Ken Thompson]

Ice screws for tents and fishing huts

[Tyler S]

• How are you driving them into the ice? – rock or backside of hatchet
• Perhaps more importantly, how do you get them out?  They will generate heat going in and then be stuck fast – especially with the gripping ridges – tap from the rock or hatchet and then pull with a pliers
• Do you need more than the nail head to keep your guylines from slipping off?  A lake can be a windy place… –  Was not planning on it, but some washers could be easily added.  The steel nail head is much more pronounced than the Ti Nail head.  A hitch end should hold just fine.

[DWR D]

If you want the best anchor:  Ice Screws… @ climbing gear

[Kevin Babione]

Since you don’t need the ice screws for life support (literally), you might also consider these:

I’ve never used them, but I have tried to free a rock from frozen ground and these seem that they’d be a lot easier to work with.  Just another thought…

[Tyler S]

If you want the best anchor:  Ice Screws… @ climbing gear

How is an option that would cost and weigh more than my tent the “best”?  I’m trying to hold a tent down, not belay a frozen waterfall. I get they have excellent holding power and easy installation, but they are the worst option at everything else.

[Tyler S]

I’ve considered the ice fishing style screws, but they are also extremely heavy and bulky by comparison.  I know nails will work, I just never realized how similar the Vargo Ti Nails are to standard steel pole barn nails.  So I’m wondering if anyone has experience using the standard steel pole barn nails as tent pegs.

[David Gardner]

I have used 6″ and larger “spikes” (basically what looks exactly like a nail but is 60d or bigger and/or 6″ or longer) and I’d say forget the Ti. Not just for huge cost savings and nominal weight savings, but Ti is not the right material for this application. Actually, I’d say it is the wrong material. Ti is great in certain applications where its high tensile strength-to-weight ratio is an advantage, or in high temperature applications. But is a soft metal and does not hold a point or an edge well, which is why you don’t see real knives, axes, hatchets, ice axes, or crampons made from titanium (with a few specialty exceptions like bi-metal knives that self-sharpen like beavers’ teeth).

If you’re worried about over-gripping from the ridges on the sides file them off first.

And as Kevin says, try them on ice. If you really want to prove it to yourself, order just one Ti stake and and test it against the barn nails. Heck, I’d be happy to reimburse the cost of one Ti stake just to see your report on the results.

[Roger Caffin]

I agree with David: Grade 2 Ti is not the right material for hammering into ice. You might get away with it using 6Al4V alloy into snow ice, but not if you are talking about blue ice (ie frozen water). Finding 4 mm rod using 6Al4V alloy might also be tricky and expensive, although it is available on ebay from China.

I like the fishing nails or ice screws Kevin showed. Seems to me they would be about right. Ice-climbing screws are a bit of an overkill for this. To be sure, they would work, but weight and cost are high.

Cheers

[Kevin Babione]

Unless you need your pliers for something else, you’d be able to leave those home with the ice screws.  Factor that weight into your calculation and you will get closer.  Leaving the hatchet would certainly cover the weight of the ice screws, but it probably comes in handy for your fire…

[Tyler S]

Really good stuff guys, thanks for the insight on the Ti Nail pegs. I will hold off on buying those.

I know the pole barn nails will work. I have a hockey rink in my front yard and just pounded one in and out no problem. Those fishing ice screws do work, but weigh 6.5 oz each so 2.5 lbs for 6 of them… more than my shelter.

The trip is a backcountry fishing trip so the pliers is a multi tool used for prepping fish and ski/snowshoe repair. Hatchet will be there for fire prep.

 

[DWR D]

“How is an option that would cost and weigh more than my tent the “best”? I’m trying to hold a tent down, not belay a frozen waterfall. I get they have excellent holding power and easy installation, but they are the worst option at everything else.”

I didn’t say they were the BEST OPTION; I said they were the BEST ANCHOR… don’t complain about free ideas… geez

 

[Tyler S]

I didn’t say they were the BEST OPTION; I said they were the BEST ANCHOR… don’t complain about free ideas… geez

They’re not the best anchor for a shelter.

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