MYOG load carrying scrambling pack

[nunatak]

Yes, McHale is an opinionated crank, but he also has a lot of experience in this field.

If some of his lighter packs truly are comfy load carriers with all aspects refined to perfection, as I suspect they might be, and still come in at 3 lbs, then they are in the realm of other highly regarded ‘lightweight’ manufacturers like Seek Outside and Elemental Horizons. Unfortunately I cannot see weights on the McHale site.

But, like most posters in this thread, I have been quite satisfied doing long trips with our various sub 30oz MYOG bear can compatible packs, which to some extent goes against McHale’s ideas.

My favorite MYOG iteration attaches the bear can outside low, and features the proven full wrap belt and 7075 stays (this particular pack design carried just as well in the 22 ounce version, but long term durability suffered). I have made 3 of these for friends the last two years and found that carrying the canister externally in this particular spot is ideal.

[Adam Kilpatrick]

The use of the metal G hooks for attaching the hipbelt is interesting and clever. They are going to be very strong. What modifications did you make to them? Which hooks are they exactly? How easily to they come off… I’d just be worried they come off too easily especially twisting about off-trail…? I’m guessing that isn’t the case though :-)

Could the G hooks be used to attach the shoulder straps at the top end, or, too much risk of coming out?

Do you use aluminium for the bar under the belt?

Its good to see the hipbelt not overly attached. I think this is a good idea, just promotes flexibility in load transfer. The old “Dynamic” harness on Macpac packs like the Torre and Cascade did a really good job of moving around while still transfering the weight. I’ll have to borrow a friend’s to take a look, I can’t remember the detail off the top of my head (from more than ten years ago now I last looked).

[Matthew / BPL]

I’m surprised to hear that you like a bear can down low. I have found I’m more comfortable with the can considerably higher in my pack. When I carry it low I feel like I’m forced to walk hunched over. Any thoughts on why low works for you and doesn’t work for me?

[nunatak]

Matthew:

I have always arranged my packs to have a center of gravity below the mid point.

These days I’m a predominantly a hiker but have never been a trail-hiker. My background is climbing and mountaineering and those roots still makes me regard a trail as a necessary transport phase to more stimulating terrain. I feel better balanced on talus, scrambles and general steep stuff if my load is not too top heavy.

My trips rarely involve 20+ mile days. In fact I can hardly squeeze more than 10 miles into a 10 hour day. Perhaps lots of smooth, fast miles require a differently balanced load.

Adam:

Those are these buckles

I cut off the big lift tab and the first slot because a low profile is essential to minimize excessive pack movement. The buckles are sewn on with the gate opening in opposing directions, making it necessary to bend and twist the belt to remove it. Things are also quite stiff in that region of the pack. So far the belt has not come off accidentally.

Yes, that’s a short little aluminium stay.

[Matthew / BPL]

Ok. That makes sense.

[Craig B]

Interesting drift in this thread, moving a little toward philosophy!  Fascinating seeing the differences of opinions between McHale and Jardine.  Both have somewhat similar experiences in the outdoors, and have created/invented some really great gear (packs, climbing equipment).  I side with McHale in that comfort trumps weight, especially when it comes to packs.  However, Jardine has acquired quite a following it seems, and been successful convincing people his way has merit.  I think some people are just generally less sensitive when it comes to physical discomfort and can tolerate an uncomfortable pack, or all the weight on their shoulders.  I’m definitely not one of those people!  I’ve had a progression of packs from a heavy external frame pack in my 20’s to an REI internal frame and Z-packs arc blast in my 40’s.  I think the external frame was the most comfortable followed by internal frame followed by the Z-packs.  I found the Z-packs intolerable as made because the attach points of the shoulder straps pressed into my shoulders and rubbed them raw.  I guess it’s possible I got the wrong size, but I don’t think so.  I have since mitigated the problem with a MYOG fix, but the load transfer structure to the hip belt is still not terribly comfortable.  But lots of other people find the arc blasts super comfortable, so I guess it comes down to individual perception of tolerable comfort.

[Geoff Caplan]

Craig – I think you’re right- it’s a question of perception.

Case in point – here’s a YouTube pack review I spotted just yesterday where the poster states:that as “all the weight is on my shoulders and my shoulders already get pretty sore” he didn’t select the lightest pack because there wasn’t enough padding on the shoulder straps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj4TrWy8vHQ

It really does seem to be the triumph of fashion over functionality – as our own Ryan Jordan has shown, even, frameless packs with hip-belts are objectively inefficient once loads exceed 15 lbs or so:

https://backpackinglight.com/00194-2/

Over the decades I’ve become weary of neck and shoulder pain  on the hill. Now I use the Aarn bodypack concept, which counterbalances the weight of the rear load with integrated front pockets. There is zero load on the shoulders and your center of balance remains in its natural position so you don’t have to lean forwards to compensate for the unbalanced load on your back.

Even with a light base-weight, carrying your load with a natural upright gait makes a startling difference to pain and fatigue over a long day. I can walk for weeks free of any pain or inflammation. But the system looks a bit goofy, and the extra weight doesn’t give you bragging rights with your base-weight spreadsheet. So the bodypack idea has never gained any traction with the cool ultralight kids.

Once you’re on the trail for more than a day or two, efficiency trumps lightness in my experience. My pack and sleep system are light, but no so light that I sacrifice a comfortable carry and a good night’s sleep, Smart lightweight backpacking is all about making the right tradeoffs, and you do reach a point where additional lightness becomes counterproductive. Otherwise we’d all be heading out stark naked…

If your pack has poor ergonomics, you start skimping on food and camp gear to get a bearable carry. There’s a moment on John Zahorian’s GDT vlog where he’s exhausted after freezing all night and has run out of food a long way from resupply. I guess it works for him, but I think I’ll stick with my untrendy but comfortable system….

[James Marco]

Geoff, I agree. Using a pack without a hip-belt is kind of like using a frying pan without a handle. Sure you can do it, but it gets painful with time/weight. One way to avoid this is using wider shoulder straps to distribute the load across your shoulders. But again, like a frying pan, this only helps with the pressure points, not really with the time spent wearing it. The overall ergonomics of transferring the weight across your shoulders and down your spine to your hips/legs is just poor. A hip belt will transfer a large portion of the weight directly to your hips, not involving your spinal muscles. I have bad disks in my cervical and lower spine areas…I KNOW the difference after just an hour of packing…the pack MUST have good support for the weight. (The driving reason for pushing me to UL travel.)  Even with 10-15 pound weights you need some sort of hip belt to stabilize your carry.

Yeah, I read Ryan’s article a while ago, and just reviewed it again. I would note that he mentions that a folded pad against your back in pockets works well at weights up to about 35pounds. I never carry that load anymore. Even for three unsupported weeks out, I think my heaviest load was 27 pounds. But it does indeed work. (My daily fitness routine includes a 5-7mile walk with a 40+ pound pack-I think I am at 43 but I haven’t measured in a while, but this is mostly on pavement.)

Yeah, I tried the Aarn concept many years ago. It really didn’t work for me. Initial trials were with unsupported front packs capable of about 2.5-3 pounds each. They ended up just putting more weight on my shoulders. With a stay, it seemed to help slightly. But, it was not a cure all. The extra weight (about a half pound each) really didn’t help enough to make it worth while. And, it was a bit more awkward getting the pack off and on. I normally don’t crouch over when I am packing anyway. I just lean my whole body forward to reduce the angular strain on my lumbar disks. I believe Roger said much the same thing with him pivoting at the ankles. Same thing really, just for different reasons. Anyway, HYOH.

 

 

[nunatak]

The Ray-Way inspired pack is undoubtedly popular. Even a sloppy thirty minutes of Internet research leaves no doubt about this. Not everybody buying these are fools eating up YouTube vids of UL nonsense.

For example:

The user is much younger/stronger than this readership and truly has a body composition that mostly feels the touted benefits without the pain.

The user’s local area and lifestyle mostly allows for numerous one overnighters with low food/water loads.

The user is an accomplished athlete near the top of the UL game, doing big mileage on trails only. A six day segment is done in two and half, thus needing less food.

The experienced user wants a competitive base weight for their lighterpack.com, but also owns other more useful packs.

But, if investing a little more time looking around one will see the majority of the Ray-Way looking packs offered today do have a belt, often padded. A fair bit of them have frames too.

The relatively small size, ubiquitous mesh pockets and roll top is the current look, obviously, but may be the only things left over from the early all out UL ‘stuff sack with straps’ versions.

[Daryl and Daryl]

Jerry,

Does your 14 ounce MYOG frameless backpack have a waist belt?  If so, is it padded, wrap around, attached to a 2″ buckle, 4″ wide, fashionable,  etc.?

[David Chenault]

That thing is sweet Jan.  Great aesthetics, too.

15 lb foam does seem rather on the rigid side for a hanging belt design.  Over the past year I’ve gone thinner and floppier with prototypes, to the point of carrying out a full deer and gear (~90 pounds?) 17 miles this fall with a belt that was only 1/4″ 3 lb EVA and 3mm spacer mesh.  I found this more comfortable than comparable packouts using thicker and dual density belts earlier this year and last.

[nunatak]

@davec Thanks!

I just checked the sample sheet, and it’s 12#, not 15. My bad.

Recently I got a chance to disassemble a HMG belt that a friend found at the thrift store. It is also built sandwich style with a thin stiff outer and EVA, or similar, inner. Pretty much looks the same as mine – maybe a good reason to abandon this particular idea!

[Jerry Adams]

Daryl, my MYOG pack is not fashionable : )

Bag – 42 inches around, 36 inches high

Shoulder straps and waist belt – 3 inches wide, 3/8 inch closed cell foam, the same fabric as the pack, 3D mesh – to 1 inch webbing and buckles

When I go over 21 or 22 pounds or so, it gets difficult, just like others (including McHale) say.  Sometimes I’ll do 5 nights and the first day, 22 pounds, just a few miles, late start, shoulders a bit sore…

[Chris L]

@nunatak Not sure if you’re still following this post, but I’m curious about your choice of external seam binding on the back panel seam. I’ve been thinking about trying this on my own packs but curious about the pros and cons.

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