Moulder Strip Directions

[Jerry Adams]

I think the BRS 3000 has a short distance from top of canister to burner so Moulder strip should work good

[Roger Caffin]

It does.

Cheers

[JCH]

Roger took a commercial burner head (v1), engineered some support and fuel feed improvements and it was called the Caffin Stove.

Jerry found an extremely UL way to reflect heat from the stove back to the canister and it was called the Adams Shield Reflector.

Bob created an efficient, UL, extensively tested and functionally proven improvement on the heat shunt concept and it was called the Moulder Strip

Kudos to all for their good work and deserved credit.  While nothing about any of these things is new or groundbreaking, they DO represent marked improvements on exiting ideas and/or systems, and the people who developed them deserve to have their names associated with them.

Everything that mankind has, or will create is built upon those ideas that came before. Celebrate each and every step in the chain.

[Gary Dunckel]

“And while we’re at it, I did not come up with the name Moulder Strip; that would be David Thomas, Master of Memes.”

I needed to know who exactly coined the term “Moulder Strip”, so I went back to the original 10-page thread to see if I could find it. Sure enough, on Jan. 8, 2016 our friend David Thomas used the term Moulder Strip. The first one to do it with both words capitalized. However, I think Jerry gets an assist, as a few posts above David’s he mentioned in one of his posts “… Moulder strip.” So both guys are cool. But the coolest is Bob Moulder, for showing us all the light about winter canister warming.

For what it’s worth JCH, Jerry’s warming technique is actually called the Adams Reflector. I shamelessly take credit for the name, since it didn’t have one that I knew of. So when I wrote my article last winter about winter canister warming techniques, I called it the “Adams IR Reflector.” It had to have a name, being a solid arrow in one’s canister warming quiver. I agree with everything else you wrote, that there are many folks here on BPL that creatively improve upon age-old techniques. It’s why I so enjoy BPL, and the things that I learn here.

[Jerry Adams]

maybe it should be called the Moulder/Dunckel strip because you have probably done more testing of it : )

this is better than running across busy highway or talking about politics : )

[Gary Dunckel]

Not at all, Jerry, all the credit goes to Sir Moulder. And man, has he ever done some serious testing. I’m just a wannabe. But I do think that between Bob and myself we’ve pretty much got the copper strip thing dialed in. Now if we can just get David to do some Moulder Strip testing at -40* F we will have all the field data we need. I’d also like for him to determine the lower temperature limit of your Adams Reflector. We don’t usually get many sub-zero days here in Boulder, so I’ve already done what I can with mine (at about 0* F). By the way, I switched over to using polished titanium foil for my IR reflector and base, for greater durability. It seems to work pretty well, but maybe not quite as efficient as heavy duty aluminum foil.

Now, If I can somehow find the perfect lid to fit the bottom of the 220 g fuel canisters, my cold weather arsenal will be complete. At least I did find lids that fit the smaller canisters nicely.

[Jerry Adams]

Yeah, that’s a good technique, I forget who proposed that, you?

Turn canister upside down, fill with water, put on lid, turn canister right side up and use, lid keeps water next to canister.

[Bob Moulder]

JCH, very nice summary and great job putting this into perspective.

All our efforts in this arena are aimed at getting these darn stoves to work when physics says they shouldn’t, and we’ve come up with different and viable solutions. I still get a kick out of firing up a stove at 5 below zero and watching it purr along just fine.

re naming, David Thomas was the first to trademark it, along with the “Classic” designation, so now I suppose I need to clear it with him before using it?  Hmm…  :^) :^) :^)

Last but not least, I was able to scrounge up various leftover bits from testing and am mailing them to the OP.

 

[JCH]

Last but not least, I was able to scrounge up various leftover bits from testing and am mailing them to the OP.

And THAT, dear readers, is why Bob is unequivocally the man!

Gary – I happily stand corrected, and have edited my post to use the accurate terminology :)

[Gary Dunckel]

No worries, JCH. As for Bob’s generosity, he ranks at the top. #1 in selflessness, and also in willingness to share all the details of his many creations. David is like this as well. There are lots of folks on BPL like that. You have to wade through the endless Gear Swap posts to get to the good stuff, but it’s there, thanks to these guys.

By the way, the link you provided for the copper strip material is spot on – perfect dimensions, and the best price I’ve seen. Somebody ought to buy some and furnish the material to others (for cost + shipping).

[Bob Moulder]

JCH,

lol and Thanks!

But I must say that people here, especially Gary, have been very generous in sending me test materials and other items for evaluation. Among my favorite things are Gary’s titanium paper clips! And also the canister cozy made from the neoprene waders (very nifty with velcro built in) and another cozy for the Sterno testing.

And Dan Y sent me a Sterno Inferno pot and lid, a Starlyte XL3 and material for a base for the Big Cozy-No-Cozy Shootout, which I have not done yet… the base has been made and tested to be identical to my other one, but I’ve put off actual testing of the cozy concept because it has been too warm — I’m holding out for significantly cooler temps in order to see how heat might be retained after the boil. So Gary and Dan, I have not forgotten it!

[Jerry Adams]

somebody suggested flattening copper tubing

1/4″ type L coiled copper tubing – outside diameter 3/8 inch, flattened it would be a little bigger than 1/2 inch.  0.03 inch wall thickness.  That would have a bit more cross sectional area than Bob’s 1 inch wide x 0.02 to 0.025 inch thick.

that would be readily available.

I saw some 1/4 inch outside diameter from amazon for $6.38, that would be about the same

[Roger Caffin]

Copper tubing – sounds a bit like the early Alpine Bombs made by hammering heavy gauge copper wire flat and winding it around the canister. Cyclic, cyclic.

Cheers

[Jerry Adams]

You could hacksaw half way through tubing about 2 inches up from bottom, then hacksaw along length of that 2 inches, and open it up to make better contact with canister.

The upper part just hammer flat, it woud actually be better because it has less surface area to conduct heat

[Gary Dunckel]

Yep, that was me, Jerry. A lid from a Nabisco Go-Pack cookie cup perfectly fits onto all 4 oz. fuel canisters with a water tight seal.

As for your copper tubing idea, you are just thinking out loud. Why don’t you just go with the 1″ x .021″ copper strips that Bob and I have settled on and be done with it.  Then you can toss your aluminum strips into the trash and run with the big dogs. Somebody should jump on JCH’s Amazon offering and supply everyone else with copper strips. A 6″ piece works with the 4 oz. canisters, and 8″ for the 8 oz. canisters.

[Jerry Adams]

I’ve been looking for lids to fit bottom of 220 g canister ever since, it’s sort of like an ear worm, only maybe a brain worm : )

aluminum is the same as copper except you need a little thicker piece which weighs less, why would I get an inferior copper piece?  Enough of this collegiate B.S. : )

maybe if it’s ever cold enough I’ll try a canister stove that’s shorter and verify that’s why mine doesn’t work so good.  My Pocket Rocket is shorter.  I also have a Coleman Exponent F1 that’s shorter, but that can leak fuel between the canister and o-ring, mainly just a problem if I leave it overnight and then the canister is empty in the morning.  If I’m careful tightening it it doesn’t leak while I’m using it and create a fireball.

[Gary Dunckel]

Actually, the Pocket Rocket is a fairly tall stove, Jerry. The F-1 is about the right height. Maybe yours needs a new O-ring? It’s a sweet little stove, and it’s too bad Coleman quit selling them. They were on the verge of going ultralight back then, but …

[Jeremy and Angela]

Somebody should jump on JCH’s Amazon offering and supply everyone else with copper strips. A 6″ piece works with the 4 oz. canisters, and 8″ for the 8 oz. canisters.

I’ve already got ~7′ of copper left over, so I can cut and mail strips if people are interested.

-J

[Roger Caffin]

aluminum is the same as copper except you need a little thicker piece which weighs less,
That’s how the physics works. I did the sums and switched from copper to aluminium ages ago.

Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

How to clamp the strip to the canister? (tightly)

I tried using a hose clamp or jubilee clip, which certainly gave a very high clamping force, but the weight was far too high plus you need a screwdriver, which is also weight. This is shown at the top of the canister here.

Then I realised that IF you shape the bottom of the strip very closely to the canister, you probably don’t need quite as much tension. So I tried a spring plus string – bottom of the canister.
You can adjust the tension by adjusting the string.
You can put the metal spring over the strip in case it gets hot – but the nylon string can take ~250 C anyhow.
To fit it you just push it down from the top, OR you leave it in place on the canister all the time and poke the strip under it when you set the stove up.
Stainless steel springs are readily available anywhere, including eBay, for maybe $10 for 5 off. Mine has a 0.8 mm wire in a coil 8 mm OD and relaxed is ~65 mm long excluding loops at the ends. That was just out of the workshop drawer. With heavy string (it was handy) the loop weighs 8.5 g.
With a shorter spring and lighter string – maybe <5 g?

Cheers

[Jerry Adams]

#18 steel wire loop.  Make it just big enough so you can barely squeeze it over the strip.  That will put a far amount of pressure between the strip and the canister.  0.1 ounce.

[Roger Caffin]

Yes, but …
The problem is that different brands of canisters have slightly different diameters, from 106 mm to 108 mm on the ones I have measured here. I think some other brands may be outside that range too. There is no standard!
A 2 mm range in diameter is a 6 mm range in circumference.

Cheers

[Jerry Adams]

yes, I have discovered that in the field

but, if you check it before going on a trip you can make sure it’s the right size

and, from experience, it’s pretty easy to adjust in the field, although it’s easy to get metal fatigue and break it

if you stick with the same brand, they’ll all be the same size, although I think it was Giga Powe that switched to a different source that had a different size

[Jerry Adams]

another thing that affects performance is that 220 g canisters are about 1 inch taller than 110 g canisters.  With a 110 g canister, the strip will be one inch shorter so it’ll work better

[Bob Moulder]

Congratulations, Jerry and Roger!

You’ve succeeded fabulously at taking something simple and light and making it complicated and kludgy!!

LOL, what a joke.

To anyone reading these last few embarrassing posts, I have nothing to do with this nonsense.

 

[Author]

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