Midlayer recommendations

Funny I keep asking why makers don’t offer more jumpers and tops with short zips. Short zips are far more comfortable and warmer and don’t ruck up under a hip belt and are marginally lighter. I’m walking or skiing not sipping latte in town Function over fashion always, thumb holes are a must etc or how else am I going to get a good seal between mitten and insulation?

I have a new Alpha top but I’d have bought a couple of extras if it was a pull-over rather than a full zip. Zips below the harness or pack hipbelt are a waste of resources and damned uncomfortable with any sort of heavy load

First choice for me? Patagonia R1 pullover, second choice R1 Ninja top

since you like the  Arc’teryx Kyanite( a hard face power stretch material) then you might like the TRAIL ACTION PARKA MEN’S BY MONTBELL and no thumb hole

I’m not worried about a little zipper under a hip belt, pullovers just aren’t user friendly. Especially for those of us with long, thick, semi-curly hair and a lot of upper body muscle. I have a cotton pullover that I almost never wear just because it’s a pullover. I don’t want something I will only use backpacking in the cold. Whatever I get will likely be used on 54 degree bike commutes far more often.

I’ve never been in a location cold enough that a zipper or lack of thumb holes caused me to get cold. I rarely go anywhere below freezing. Though I was thinking if I layer it with a baselayer & puffy it might be enough to go camp out in the 30s.

That Montbell price isn’t bad. Not sure about the visible chest pocket. But that’s just aesthetics and it may be convenient. Maybe heavier than I need at almost 15 oz.

I just wish there was something synthetic, lightweight and packable that doesn’t have features. I tried the Mammut Runbold hoodie, which felt great but the partial zip annoyed the hell outa me and so did that annoying bit of fabric in front of the neck/chin. My chin and face don’t get cold even in the 30s. (Also I had just started working out so the small didn’t fit anymore).

the  Arc’teryx Kyanite is 13.9oz and the Montbell is 14.5(about 1/2 oz  difference and $90 cheaper) the mammot is 14oz in the FULL ZIP VERSION , so you are interested in power stretch fleece is that right? Not a regular 100 or 200wt, depending on my use and temp. I like a plain 100wt fleece pullover and a windshirt, it is much more versatile and lighter than than the power stretch hoody alone, the KUIU MOUNTAIN FIT FLEECE HOODIE is a pull over with thumb wholes but only weighs 5oz instead of the 14 to 14.5oz of the full zip fleece power stretch fleece but it is also thinner than regular power stretch. I guess it depends on how you are going to be using it and the temperatures you are going to be using it in? Have you seen any of these articles or videos?

. MIKE CLELLAND VIDEO SERIES .

. ANDREW SKURKA Ultimate Hiking Gear & Skills Clinic .

. ANDREW SKURKA’S CORE 13  .

. Dave Chenault’s response to Skurka’s Core 13 .

. HIKING CLOTHING GUIDE: AN OVERVIEW OF ULTRALIGHT LAYERING SYSTEMS .

. A REVISED PARADIGM FOR ESTIMATING GARMENT COMFORT LIMITS .

.I can add more later, but I have to go now, have fun

Ok, I’ll take a look at those links.

I don’t really know about the tech, what power stretch means. I’ve never owned a non-cotton hoodie, but thought it would be useful to layer under my nano puff for more warmth. The nano puff plus a midweight base layer was not warm enough for chilling at camp in low 40s. Figure adding a midlayer fleece could make winter camping (30s at night) comfortable. I just want full zip for convenience, so I can use it as an every day item like a would with any cotton hoodie. If it isn’t very cold (say 50ish at night) I would leave it home and just bring the above mentioned base layer + nano puff. The nano puff cuts wind just fine.

That layering guide looked promising but wants me to pay to read it. Um… are they new to the internet? Lol.

Anyway, I’m not made of money, and already have poly Ts, long sleeve base layer, nano puff, and rain shell, so really all I need is a fleece. While I was talking about the kyanite for how normal it looks, I am wondering if I really need the weight/bulk.

I want to be comfortable in the bay area winters, meaning never below freezing, and want to layer a long sleeve (or short sleeve) base layer, some unknown fleece hoody, a nano puff, and rain shell. Would a light weight fleece like the Delta LT be enough? Would it be worth getting something heavier to open up the option of colder temps? (Someday I might like to try colder backpacking, but I’m from Arizona and live in SF, and honestly can’t even imagine what anything below freezing or involving snow feels like.)

Oh and its probably apparent I’m focusing on Arcteryx, but that’s mainly because it seems like the best brand REI carries, and it’s nice to try stuff on and have the option of returning gear.

I can understand not wanting to pay, lots of good stuff on internet that doesn’t require, sort of anachronistic to require paying : )

Cotton isn’t good because it absorbs a lot of water and then gets cold.  I remember climbing some mountain, hypothermia setting in, I stripped down and removed my cotton base layer, put everything else back on, and was much warmer.

Fleece is heavy for the warmth.  Better to have a synthetic or maybe wool base layer like you already have, and an outer layer that repels wind and water.  Then, in between a synthetic or down insulation layer.  Down does not tolerate water so it’s only good in the coldest conditions.  You mentioned Arc’teryx – their Atom LT Insulated Hoodie would be good.

A lot of people love fleece though – it tolerates sweat good.

I have the nano puff. It is ok for mild weather, but I want to add onto it for colder weather, rather than buying an entirely new insulated jacket only for those cold days. I would like something versatile that can be used any time, and could be used in place of the nano puff day to day, but also is lightweight and packable so I can take it backpacking.

What I want to utilize is:
1) Base layer
2) Fleece
3) Insulation
4) Shell
I have 1, 3, and 4, which get me down to mid 40s. I want hooded fleece to get me those last 15 degrees to freezing, or to wear in place of the insulated mid on a day to day basis.

Delta LT feels quite packable but also quite thin and without testing it I’m not sure it would add 15 degrees of warmth. I’m tempted to just spring for the Kyanite because it’s thick and casual and feels warm in the store. But that thing probably cant pack down very small.

The new Alpha direct layers would work but they don’t fulfill the good looking criteria I thought you needed. I’m not familiar with the North American market at all but here these are more popular as pullovers which you don’t want.

https://www.macpac.co.nz/mens/tops/macpac-nitro-polartec-alpha-pullover—mens/115606.html?cgid=mens-tops#sz=12&start=24

This has become my favourite intermediate layer in moderate weather. I thing Rab do something similar but with a full zip

Ordered both Arc’teryx Kyanite and Fortrez on REI sale. Plan to try them both and see which is better. Both weight ~13 oz supposedly. It seemed by looking online anything much lighter is 100 wt or lightweight and probably just not as useful for all conditions. The Fortrez is supposedly not as warm, and has a semi hard face, which on the one hand might be nice to cut wind when I’m bike riding and to make layering over it easier. On the other hand it may just be a useless feature. It also has built in balaclava, which seems silly to me and I’ve never had issues with my face being cold (I’m used to it from bike riding) but it may turn out to be a nice feature. I’ll try em both a few times. Maybe exchange one for a small for my wife.

I find the military surplus, heavweight, fleeced polypropylene “baselayers” (often labeled as “undergarments”) work very well as mid layers. 

Density of polyester is around 1.38 and density of polypropylene is around .91. PP is more hydrophobic–acts like it has a DWR, but has it permanently so, and it’s the least thermally conductive material commonly used for fabric/clothing, so that even when it’s wetted out, it still provides some noticeable insulation.

I don’t know if there are hooded versions though, don’t recollect having seen one.

I don’t like PP for baselayers because it builds up and holds onto strong odor too much.  But, it’s much less of an issue as a midlayer.

Personally, I don’t need a mid layer to have a hood since I often use a Cap 4 hoody as a baslayer–that combined with a buff or balaclava and a windjacket hood, has done me good down to near and just below 0″F temps (including a non hooded midlayer of some kind).  At camp or rest, I also have a down jacket that has a hood.  For me, a midlayer with a hood is redundant.

It’s a shame that polypropylene fleeced fabrics aren’t used more for mid layers, because that is where they most shine.  Especially when you hiking near freezing temps and it’s sleeting and/or cold raining heavily, and some water gets in or through as it almost invariably does.

My favorite system for such extreme conditions, is either Cap 4 hoody or fishnet for baselayer (if using a fishnet, I put a thin, wicking polygiene treated polyester baselayer over it), fleeced PP for midlayer, then windjacket (or if it’s raining heavy enough, my MYOG WPB poncho over the windjaket).  Deals with a wide range of temps and conditions very well.  From around 0*F to near freezing and wet and miserable.