mid in snow

Maybe a tunnel tent with walls that are vertical at the bottom is better if it’s snowing on you.

Cue Roger.

If you don’t want to buy a tunnel tent, two-pole mids with steep walls work pretty well in the snow.  You may still have to push on the walls but the additional structure gives you more headroom to start with.  Nice big vents at the peaks will keep the air circulating when the snow blocks off the perimeter.

Cut of tarp – not enough curve on the corner seams

Size of tarp – not much headroom to begin with, a bit larger mid greatly increases head and shoulder room.

Weight and stretch of fabric-  looks  stretched in, a heavier fabric can resist more weight

Tie out points – some mid panel tie outs can give you more shoulder room

Pole adjustability- shake some snow off and increase the tautness of the whole tarp by raising the pole a bit

If you have much snow you can dig down to give yourself more room as well.

Thanks to these guys for the photos.

There is a tunnel tent in the background. Looks pretty good too. Not so much room to cook tho.

+1  “If you have much snow you can dig down to give yourself more room as well.”

In the Sierra Nevada I have not found condensation to be much an issue since it freezes on the inside of the tarp at night.  If base camping, you cover up your gear and or knock off the frozen condensation in the morning.

How about some photos of hammocks in the snow?

A dual pole mid will tend to be a substantial improvement because:
1) It creates steeper walls that sheds snow more easily and more off the tent.
2) The dual pole structure and smaller panels provides more support for whatever snow doesn’t shed (reducing deflection), and
3) It enables a more central sleeping position that keeps you away from any walls that are being pushed in.

Without banging off the tent nor using the peak guylines, several inches of snow is still easily handled.

Poly fabric also helps a lot because it doesn’t absorb water from the snow and expand/sag like nylon, which causes the snow to catch in the wrinkles and allows more deflection. DCF is good for no sag too, but it’s much more sticky so snow doesn’t slide as well.

Once you start getting up to >6″ of snow then it’s ideal to use the peak guylines because the weight of the snow starts to be enough to stretch the fabric, and then it can deflect more.

Hammock hanging in winter

Not hijacking the mid in snow thread with hammock in snow.. Sorry!!!

Thats interesting, since the hammock tent is above the ground, any snow will slide off onto the ground, that seems much better

It seems like that two pole mid has the same problem as one pole mid – snow piles up and will push in sides to reduce room inside

Even a dome tent needs can have snow drifts against the side.

Snow piling up and pushing the sides in. IMO experience this is a non issue.  If you have pitched the mid properly and dug out a sleeping platform you have more room inside than a tent.

BTW The nights are long. When you get up in the middle of the night to go outside, you check your shelter. Shovelling snow in the middle of winter night warms the soul and enables you to enjoy the whole experience.

It seems like that two pole mid has the same problem as one pole mid – snow piles up and will push in sides to reduce room inside

To some extent it does.  But the steeper walls shed the snow much better.  And the fact that you are sleeping close to the poles which are separated by several feet means that you will still have more sleeping space and headroom than with the common single-poles shelters.  That’s actually why I moved to the Golite Shangri-La 2 and later the Xmid.  I can go to sleep in either one of these shelters confident that I won’t be buried if the snow is more than predicted.

“It seems like that two pole mid has the same problem as one pole mid – snow piles up and will push in sides to reduce room inside”
With any tent snow will pile up around the outside. How much that affects the tent depends primarily on the wall slope, since steeper walls put larger proportion of that weight into the ground, rather than on the canopy. The X-Mid walls are substantially steeper than nearly all single pole mids, so there is less weight on the tent and thus less inward deflection. Traditionally poled tents can be better yet as they may have near vertical walls near the bottom that put even less load on the tent, but a two pole mid is already a major improvement in this regard.

So checked the X-mid, which runs under four feet in peak height.  Checked MLD, and the run is 55-59″ in peak height.  What I thought, but wanted to check a couple well-regarded tents.

So with a higher peak, and the same footprint, the walls would usually slope more, right?

Like the argument though in favor of  the polyester fabric for any tent, pyramid or other.   Snow or no snow.   Jerry’s tent would probably shed snow better with a no-sag poly.

Don’t want to start yet another debate as I’m totally numbed out on the subject, and have already accepted that poly will be a little but not much heavier, so won’t go into it.  Superlight gear is always about weight penalties, and it is all about what you get for paying the penalty, and if it’s enough in return.

Mids for snow use should have mid point guy outs.  I have those on my Supermid and have had zero issue with walls caving in.

My tent is silpoly

That fabric is really slippery.  The surface seems “hard”.  I’ve had silnylon that seemed almost sticky.  The snow slides off the silpoly easily.

I have one tie out on the middle of the right side.  For headroom when I’m sitting.  That works really good for that.

That makes sense that a tie out on the middle of each panel, so 8 total for the tent, would keep the sides from being pushed in.   Good idea.

I don’t do a lot of snow camping.  There was no snow on the ground when I put the tent up.  My goal is to get snowed on once each winter : )

“So checked the X-mid, which runs under four feet in peak height.  Checked MLD, and the run is 55-59″ in peak height.  So with a higher peak, and the same footprint, the walls would usually slope more, right?”
You also need to look at where the pole(s) are placed. One pole is usually in the center but can be off set (e.g. DuoMid XL) which gives a steeper side and a shallower side. A two pole shelter can use lower peaks and still have steeper walls by position a pole closer to each side.

As an example:
– X-Mid peaks are 47″ tall and set back 25″ from the edge on all four sides, so all four sidewalls are a 62 degree slope  (calculated here).
– MLD DuoMid peak is taller (55″) but also set back further at 55″ (end walls) or 34″ (side walls). That gives slopes of 45 degrees (end walls) or 58 degrees (side walls). So the side walls are similar but the end walls on a DuoMid are substantially lower angled.

Single pole mids can have steep walls on all sides too, but the pretty much requires a pole taller than what a normal trekking pole can extend to (see some of the Seek Outside shelters).

Snow reliably sheds once you get above about 55 degrees. Sometimes sheds at about 30-55 degrees, and rarely sheds below about 30 degrees. Snow stickiness and fabric stickiness are big factors too. On a slippery fabric like poly, all but the stickiest snow is going to shed at 62 degrees. Whereas a moderately slippery fabric like nylon at 45 degrees will have a lot more snow stick. And even moreso if that 45 degree slope was DCF.

As Dave mentions, using mid height guyouts to support whatever load doesn’t shed can be very helpful to reduce caving in. If you have enough support and strong enough materials, it wouldn’t really matter if the snow sheds. Similarly, a two pole structure also reduces the size of the unsupported spans to reduce caving in. And a proper 4 season mountaineering tent has poles and/or guylines everywhere so the unsupported spans are quite small. It all comes down to (1) minimizing how much of a load is on the tent and (2) supporting that load as well as possible.

“Mids for snow use should have mid point guy outs.  I have those on my Supermid and have had zero issue with walls caving in.”

Plus one for this.  I have the BD Mega Light and it’s lacking these.  I believe David Chenault added some to his years ago.  I’ve been meaning to but haven’t gotten around to it.

TL/DR if you’re going to buy a mid, opt for one with mid point guy outs.

Mids and similar shine when you have have a bit of time to dig for that extra room, you have room for the footprint, and either have enough bodies per tent to share the work or won’t be sleeping in a different location every night. ASI did tours in the late 80’s and early 90’s with PU-coated nylon mids big enough for 4 people to divide up the work, using adjustable ski poles at each corner ridgeline and skis for snow stakes. Since the ski poles and skis were required anyway it worked out to about 1.5 extra pounds per person including the avalanche shovel used for digging, for a strong, roomy 3.5-season alpine rig that moved every day. Don’t have personal experience with them in harsh winter conditions with heavy snow and/or high winds.

If you don’t have time, can only have a tiny footprint, travel every day, and must prepared to endure extended periods of the worst winter weather, tunnels and domes come into their own.

Jerry,

Thanks for elaborating a bit.  That your tent is silpoly further persuades me that it is the best choice.  Almost a convert, but not quite, since quality matters and that will require a little more work.

Dan,

In another life might have been able to do the math to obtain the degree of slope.  But I think you have a good balance between horizontal and vertical; i.e. not even close to vertical sidewalls to confront the wind, and no near horizontal areas to trap precip.  You must have thought about the tent at some length during your longer treks.

While I don’t do trekking pole tents, recognize that a good one may be the best choice for many.

I’ve been happy with that silpoly.  I’ll probably use it for my next version.

I’ve yet to see how well my Gen. 2 Notch Li does in a snow storm. Here’s hoping…

My TT Moment DW does very well in snow storms when guyed and staked out, especially when the fly stake loops are used. And BTW, I’ve added fly hem stakes to my Notch Li for just this reason and for high wind stability.