Mid configuration for 1-2 people

On our outings we use a 2 person mid with 2 zippers on the ‘long’ sides. It’s handy, for sure. This one is 30D sil with #8 zippers. The second zipper probably adds several ounces. It’s a Seek Outside.

On our other mid, a square 4 person MYOG thingy I’ve never seen much need for more than one zipper. Probably because of the large footprint and room to easily get to the door.

I have owned a Hapi and currently a Khufu. I bought the Hapi for the reasons you’re thinking. LG specified weights include guylines except for the mid panel ones. The Hapi is less than 12 ounces and if you pair it with a MLD solo innernet at 8oz you’d be much lighter than compared to a Notch (26oz?).

The Hapi is huge for one but as you suspect you miss out on the viewing of a side entry. It is comfortable enough for 2 people with the dual pole adapter. Even though the zipper on the short end makes it much easier for 2 people to get in and out it’s not as convenient as 2 side entries. These small inconveniences made me sell it. I replaced it with 2 shelters.

I got a Sil SMD Haven with inner for 2 people. Even though heavier, the weight a be shared between the 2 hikers. I really like this shelter.

I got the Khufu for solo for the reasons you’re interested in it. The main thing is I’d consider it more of a 1.5p shelter. I use this for winter camping too.

If I wasn’t interested in winter camping, I’d get an SMD Haven in cuben. It has a vestibule for 2 hikers where you have none with a mid. There are 2 side entries and the peak is offset which gives you more useable headroom.

I would also consider MLD’s Duomid and having someone add another side zipper. They’re a little more spacious than the Hapi because of a higher peak. I’m not familiar with Nunatak’s dual entry mid but it sounds similar and I’ve heard good things about their quilts. Bear paw may be able to add a zipper to a Duomid.

 “I’m not familiar with Nunatak’s dual entry mid but it sounds similar and I’ve heard good things about their quilts. “

Actually we’re not making shelters. I was speaking as an individual using someone else’s product (Seek Outside). Sorry, if that was confusing. I’ll edit the post.

Thanks for the feedback.

Don, how functional do you think the Hapi would have been with a zipper on each long side?  I know this will add some weight, but I’m strongly considering it for the two person convenience.

Also, do you know if the Hapi or Khufu is more similar in size to a Hubba Hubba?

Sean,

I think a Hapi with zippers on both long sides would solve all your problems. Unfortunately, I don’t think LG will do custom stuff but if they’d do it, I’d get one. Other than that, I’d really look at the MLD Duomid and getting someone to add a zipper to the opposite long side. I only say this mainly because it’s slightly more liveable for 2p use. Overall, mids are my favorite design. Easiest/fastest set up of any type of shelter imho, VERY wind resistant and can be used for winter. The only inconvenience to me but not a deal breaker is the shelter is usually very close to your forehead because of the center peak. This can be alleviated if not pitched close to the ground. I usually pitch it nearly flush to the ground because I’m generally setting it up only when it’s windy or raining. If you use a dual pole adapter for 1p use you can sleep diagonally and it’s pretty much a non issue unless you are really tall. All in all, I don’t think you can go wrong with the Hapi, Khufu or Duomid. They’re all great mids. Maybe not the Khufu if you plan on a lot of 2p use though unless you are both small people. The minuses for each shelter are minor inconveniences.

Also, I really prefer cuben shelters for the no-sag factor. YMMV :)

As far as I know, LG only uses #3 zips on their shelters, so they’re pretty light. I’d say 1oz to add a second full length zip. Even if LG won’t add it, these zips are pretty easy to buy and any decent taylor/seamstress could sew one in quickly.

So there’s not much harm in going for a double zipper Hapi over a Khufu. A couple ounces heavier but no loss in performance. I personally prefer a mid with two poles for use with 2 people because the headroom in any single pole mid isn’t great for two, so I’d rather carry the SS2, but if the 2 person use is rare then selling the SS2 and using the double zip Hapi is viable.

The views out the long side of the mid are great. Here’s a “morning coffee” shot from 2 weeks ago.

I continue to use and like the Khufu. In case anyone is wondering, here’s my Khufu review mentioned by Sean.

Cuben vs. Sil is a tough one. I think Sil easily lasts longer, but almost no one puts enough nights on their shelters to wear out cuben. So I think it’s mostly a consideration of cost and packing volume, with cuben taking up noticeably more space. I’ve gone back to Sil but I still like cuben for shelters/tarps (but not floors).

The new silnylon from MLD doesnt sag

Ive had my Supermid in rain and it did not need re tentioning

“The new silnylon from MLD doesnt sag. Ive had my Supermid in rain and it did not need re tensioning”

Really, no sag? That’s very interesting… so also less water absorption, ie not so soggy next morning?

Elsewhere, could I ask a favor please: on your new Supermid, what are actual dimensions of the tent material stretched tight – corner to corner?

Thanks!

Great photo Dan!

Locus Gear has confirmed they don’t accept design mods except for sizing. I like the idea of finding someone else to add the zipper, but I worry about how professional it would look compared to the LG work, particularly on cuben and also the mesh interior.

I think If I had to, I could still get by with the one side entrance for two people (I’ll preserve my views even if the other person can’t get out!).

Regarding cuben, has anyone seen Locus Gear’s bonded version? I’m not sure of the advantage since I’ve read that their stitched version doesn’t require seam sealing. Also, is there a difference between the colors? They charge more for black and red compared to white.

In terms of durability, Dan you are right that I probably wouldn’t use it enough to wear it out. I would be thrilled to get 200 nights in the next couple of years (not likely). Would a silnylon stuff stack preserve the shelter better than stuffing it into a cuben bag?

Finally, does anyone know if the Locus Gear innner requires a ground sheet? I’ve never used one with my Tarptents and I’ve never had a problem. I’m not sure if LG floor is as durable. I’d prefer to save weight with their sil inner vs. the PU taffeta or ripstop.

Thanks again.

Really, no sag? That’s very interesting… so also less water absorption, ie not so soggy next morning?

Elsewhere, could I ask a favor please: on your new Supermid, what are actual dimensions of the tent material stretched tight – corner to corner?

Thanks!

Ive had the supermid in rain 2 times and there was no need for re tentioning, that was never the case with my older Duomid.

Dont have the opportunity  to measure it anytime soon, but the dimensions are on the MLD webiste

“The new silnylon from MLD doesnt sag”
It seems light nylons are getting better in this area. All nylon sags when saturated, but they seem to have improved silicone impregnation that prevents or reduces how much saturation there is. My TarpTent SS2 is a lot better at not sagging than some of my previous silnylon shelters.

“Also, is there a difference between the colors? They charge more for black and red compared to white.”
I believe cuben’s manufacturer charges more for colors, so LG is passing that on. I don’t think there is any functional difference, other than a small change in transparency.

Would a silnylon stuff stack preserve the shelter better than stuffing it into a cuben bag?
I don’t quite understand the question here. I don’t think the stuff sack material matters, but a larger one might help a bit. More important than the stuff sacks size is how you handle the cuben material.

Cuben dies from abrasion, creasing and/or torsion. Hopefully with a mid it’s not getting much of the former. A classic example of the latter is cuben roll top dry sacks. If you crank down the dry sack so there’s a lot of twisting strain/torsion on the cuben, it’ll eventually come apart. The mylar starts to peel off and it’s quickly game over. With regards to a shelter, if you really roll it tight or do something funky like that, you might also cause the material to fail over time. Repeated creasing also isn’t great for cuben, so I think the best method is either stuffing, or a few gentle folds and then a gentle roll. So no hard creasing, nor super tight rolls. I personally use gentle folds + a gentle roll because it packs smaller than stuffing and with less exertion.

“Finally, does anyone know if the Locus Gear innner requires a ground sheet?”
I haven’t used an LG inner, but I’m sure you’d be fine without. 30D silnylon normally lasts a very long time as a floor with proper care.

Assuming that you deal with the risk of cuben fiber longevity issues (as I do) then what I see is a decision regarding site footprint and budget. For two people I recommend a 9×9/10×10 mid. Unless you are a minimalist and are very cosy with your mate then you’ll be glad to have the extra space. However, it comes with a cost: the footprint. This is not always easy to reconcile and at some point it depends on your locale or itinerary. How much will you need to camp in tight spots? Only you can answer that. If you go with a cuben mid of this size then the investment may be shocking, as in several hundred dollars. See the other thread about “rich” ULers.

Lastly, I’ve got an inner with a tafetta nylon floor from Locus Gear and I’m very happy with it. It is quite heavy though and arguments can be made against it. I could have gone with the silnylon but I didn’t want to slip and slide all night.

At the end of the day it really depends on your own system and your own values. Leveraging a system that works well for you and gives you peace of mind should not be overstated.

Edit: I should add that I greatly revere Dan Durston’s notes, for what that’s worth.

Thanks again for all of the feedback.  Does anyone have an opinion on the Locus Gear “bonded” Cuben models?  They are charging about $100 more for it.  I’m unsure of the advantage given that the non-bonded model apparently doesn’t need seam sealing.

In terms of the stuff sack choice, there was a comment in this thread that suggested a sil stuff sack may reduce some of the abrasion in a cuben shelter:

#3377248

I doubt that much abrasion occurs from rubbing against the stuff sack. More substantial is bushes rubbing against the shelter all night in the wind, walking on it as it’s set up, the edges rubbing against the ground if it’s pitched low etc. I think there is some merit to generously sized stuff sack, but mostly to make it easier to insert the shelter.

I haven’t seen LG’s cuben techniques. Are you sure the non-bonding version doesn’t require seam sealing? I don’t see that on their site. I guess the regular version is sewn and then if it doesn’t require seam sealing, they are putting cuben tape over the seams. Whereas the bonding version would use some type of double sided tape.

Most likely, the bonded version is stronger than stitching for “sheering” forces, but probably less good in “peel”. Most (all?) of the stress on a cuben mid is going to be in sheer, so I expect the bonded version is a bit tougher.
http://www.adhesives.org/adhesives-sealants/adhesives-sealants-overview/structural-design/types-of-stress

Either way though, I suspect the guy out points would fail before the major seams. So I don’t think the outright strength of the construction is a major consideration. If you’re worried about this, I’d go with an MLD product. So the bonded one adds $100 and 0.5oz, but is probably a little tougher and looks cooler.

That red cuben is awesome. If you get a red cuben Khufu and don’t like it, I’ll make you an offer :)

Oh wait…I see now that the bonded Khufu uses Hybrid Cuben as reinforcements rather than PVC and dyneema. This is way better and to brag a little, exactly what I said LG should do in my Khufu review 2 years ago:

“Locus Gear should reinforce the silnylon with tougher nylon, and the cuben with tougher cuben”

This suggests that LG is uses a liquid adhesive for the bonding, rather than double sided tape, since double side tape probably wouldn’t be wide enough for the reinforcing patches. Maybe not though…

I regard this as a substantial improvement and it moves the bonded Khufu much closer to an MLD shelter in terms of bomber-ness (but MLD’s still have a #5 main zip). $100 is still big price difference and the shelter does get heavier, so most people will still probably be served best by the regular version.

Now I really want a red cuben Khufu.

I own only two shelters and both are pyramids.

-Brown silnylon MLD trailstar. I love it. I like that I can pitch it high or low for temperature control; the brown color nice for shade in the summer. It can be pitched on uneven ground and in different configurations with different views. The footprint is large, yes, but the sleeping and gear space is unmatched for it’s weight  in a silnylon shelter. A little heavy by comparison to other mids for a solo hiker but also more versatile for larger group settings as a rain shelter also. I’ve cooked for 5 under this in a rain and it wasn’t cramped. No zippers to fail! I’ve used it in very windy and rainy weather and I can say that there is comfort under this shelter that is unlike any other. It’s so aerodynamic and solid. Yes you do have to crouch down to enter but how often are you really entering and exiting your shelter?

– Seek Outside Silvertip. Heavier than most other two person mids but it has 2 really sturdy #8 zippers and draft guard on the hem. This makes a nicer cold weather shelter with more head room. The dual entrances make it convenient for two and allows for open views in fair weather. Makes a better ‘mid for privacy and car camping. I really like that it pitches with a single 145cm trekking pole or with a pole jack for  a higher peak height and ventilation. It can be pitched with 6 stakes in fair weather or 12-14 for bad weather. I’ve also used this in windy, cold weather and it’s a sanctuary. Quiet with very little to no wind deflection  due to the conical shape. It lacks a true vent but proper site selection will minimize condensation.

I couldn’t choose one between the two because they are both so useful in different ways and make a nice duo for car camping with friends.

Here is a video of a group backpack I went on with a local youtube celebrity. Lot’s of shelters are showcased. I give a little tour of the Silvertip at 18:07

SIlvertip at 18:07

Hi Dan,

I now see in the photos of the CTF3-B the reinforcements you mentioned– I hadn’t noticed that before.  It seems like they have made 2-3 improvements based on your review. :)

The red looks interesting, but don’t you think the black or white blends in better with the natural surroundings?

Also, does anyone know who makes the stakes and stake stuff sack in this photo?

Obviously not Dan and not sure about the stakes but here’s the stake sack: http://wanderlust-equipment.com/products/u-l-mesh-peg-case/

Also, I chose white cuben from Locus Gear and am happy. You can search for a thread that I started called the “Colors of Cuben” from a couple years back for more opinions.

I think I may get a black Khufu on down the line.

Black or white do blend in better – so those colors are better for keeping things subtle which a lot of people like. I personally like a bit of color because it photographs nice, seems cheery, looks cool, among other reasons. I’m not into the super bright colors though. I know Ryan Jordan loves his bright yellow mid but that’s too much for me. I think the red cuben has the right amount of color.

I found the Hapi to be more than spacious for two with and without the inner. My partner and I upgraded from a GoLite Shangri-La 2, so not having poles in the middle was a huge upgrade.

I use a Seek Outside Silvertip now for shoulder and winter and found I’m much happier with the design. The dual doors are indeed handy, as is sod skirt which significantly decreases cold drafts. The nights I’ve spent in the Silvertip have been cold and snowy ones and an added benefit of the sod skirt, and the unique placement of the stake out points, is that sag in the fabric is significantly reduced. I wont say it’s eliminated, but I’ve never had to retention stakes/guylines – only a small boost to the pole. Very thankful when it’s cold and snowy out.