Lost 12 lbs in spite of eating 3750 calories per day

[Murali C]

I just completed the CT. I am 5’10” and approximately 147 lbs. After my CT, I lost approximately 12 lbs even though I was eating 3750 calories. Some folks marveled that I could chow down 3750 calories every day – meaning that they thought it was excessive. I averaged 19+ miles every day – max was 23.5 miles with 5200 feet of climbing. Most days I was doing 20ish miles and a few days of 22 miles.

I was not planning on losing so much weight. 5 lbs would have been okay. But, 12 is excessive. I feel when I lose so much weight, I lose my strength/stamina and may have actually slowed down.

I guess I could increase my calorie intake to 4000+ for my next trip. But, curious what your experience has been – do you lose so much weight over the course of 485 miles? I think I lost lesser than that during my PCT-Washington section hike and JMT hikes.

How much do you all consume when you are doing 20 mile days and a profile similar to CT I guess? Maybe my metabolism is just higher and I need to eat more.

[Greg Mihalik]

hummmm ….

486 miles/20 miles/day = 24 days

20 miles x 300 calories/mile = 6000 calories

6000 – 3750 = 2,250 calorie deficit per day

24 x 2,250 = 54,000 calories

At 3500 calories/pound that comes to 15 pounds of body fat.

All of these numbers are conditional depending on where you look so don’t take them to seriously.

But you’re in the ballpark.

[Mike M]

I heavily lean towards the “move fast, hike long” mantra and have found you can’t consume enough calories to not lose at least some weight.  I’m probably in the high 3000’s-low 4000 calories.  I try to eat something every 1.5-2 hr; this has proven effective in both trail running and hiking.  I eat a sit-down lunch and supper (and breakfast too- don’t move until I have some coffee in my system! :)), the rest of the calories are generally consumed on the move.

Supper is my biggest calorie dump and is most often done a couple of hours before reaching camp; it’s a huge moral (and physiological) boost.  I often arrive to camp late and it’s huge hassle to fix something AND going to sleep on a very full stomach probably not the best idea.  Suppers are in the 1200 range and will supplement olive oil, powdered butter, etc to boost into that range.  Of late I’ve been using Peak Refuel- they taste good and are almost all in the 1000 calories range.  Snickers bar for dessert and I’m in the 1500 calorie range.

Fritos now accompany me on all trips, eaten with lunch, but occasionally as a snack- very calorie dense (and helps with the salt craving).

Lunches are typically dry salami & cheddar on mini pitas- ~ 2.5 oz each of salami & cheese and two mini pitas ~ 800 calories + a lot of Fritos = 1000+ calories

4-5 bars/day (liking Kind bars of late) are in the 800-1000 cal range

Breakfast is my lightest meal, calorie wise.  Erin’s breakfast cookie (350) and a Starbuckets mocha (often two! :)) 150 calories/each

Even at 4000 calories/day, I’ll still lose weight- miles + a lot of elevation = huge caloric expenditures.

If anyone is looking for a good diet to lose weight, try 20+ miles and 4-5000′ of gain/day- guarantee you you’ll shed the pounds :)

[PaulW]

I’ve hiked about 800 miles of the CT over two trips and my weight loss was similar to yours (15lb loss on each trip). On my first hike I was carrying a very heavy pack, going slow, and doing low miles, and on my second hike I was carrying a light pack, hiking faster, and doing big miles. There are many variables to consider including how fast you were hiking, amount of weight you were carrying, and type of calories you were consuming. I too feel like I lost strength and stamina losing so much weight and since I hope to do a long stretch of the CDT at some point, I’d like to figure out a good diet where I don’t drop so many pounds. I’ll definitely being watching this thread for some tips.

[BlackHatGuy]

“If anyone is looking for a good diet to lose weight, try 20+ miles and 4-5000′ of gain/day- guarantee you you’ll shed the pounds :)”

Alternately, get diverticulitis and have to go on a clear liquid diet for 9 out of 11 days. You will definitely lose weight as well…

[David Thomas]

My calc is a little different than Greg’s because I figure each mile is 100 calories IN EXCESS of basal metabolism (2500 for men, 2000 for women).  And I figure 1,000 vertical feet climbed is the equivalent of 2 horizontal miles – you might notice how much more you sweat on an uphill stretch than on the level because you’re burning so many more calories.

We could quibble about 100 excess calories – that’s for me walking around town but I weigh 40 pounds more, while you had 15-25 pounds on your back, depending on resupply status and were on rougher trails, so I’m going with 100 excess calories per mile.

So if you did the 90,000 vertical feet of the CT in 25 days, that’s 3,600 vertical feet climbed on an average day, equivalent to another 7.2 miles ON TOP of the 20 mpd.  So 27 equiv. total miles per day x 100 calories/mile = 2700 calories.  +2500 calories basal metabolism and I get 5200 calories per day.

5200-3750 = 1450 calorie deficient each day.  Losing a pound every 2.4 days.  Losing 10 pounds over the whole trip.  You lost 12 pounds, so that’s pretty close.  Averaging Greg’s numbers and mine and we’re right there.

One more effect:  If you ended up with leaner than you started (bigger thighs and smaller waist at the end versus little stick legs and a pot belly at the end) then you were burning fat and building muscle.  The pounds of fat you lost (3, 4, 5 pounds of fat?) contained a lot more energy than the muscle you put on.  Suggesting Greg’s numbers are closer.

And another: 20 mpd of forward progress doesn’t count putzing around in camp, going off to take a dump, washing clothes, swimming in a stream, resupplying in town, or taking a little side trip.  That stuff adds up.  The step counter on my phone says I do 2-3 miles a day on days I haven’t taken a single step on a trail.

So everyone is agreeing if you wanted to maintain that pace for longer (AT, PCT?), you’d need at least 5,000 calories / day and probably more like 6,000.  I’ve figured for some of my stupider death marches (40-50-60 mpd) on 7,000 calories over the 20 hours of hiking and it gets kind of tedious eating that much food.  It helps to set timer alerts to keep slamming down another 200-300 calories of snacks every hour in addition to breakfast and dinner in camp.

Or there’s the approach we old guys use:  develop more of a beer belly in the off season.

[Murali C]

Thanks all. I was trying trying to do similar calculations to see how much more I should consume from the weight I lost. 5000 to 6000 calories seems like a lot. I will have to see how to accomplish that without feeling overstuffed. But, that is a good. At least I can work towards such a goal and see how my next trip fares.

[Luke Schmidt]

I probably lost a similar amount when I did 409 miles of the CT in 2010. I really wish I’d kept better notes of that experience food wise. I think I was pacing myself to finish that particular hike. If I’d been thru hiking the PCT I probably would have slowed down a bit at some point to let my body catch up.

How far did you go on the section hikes? Did you take zero days? A friend of mine said he thought the CT was harder mile per mile the the PCT section he hiked (and probably higher too). That might explain some of the weight loss.

[Greg Mihalik]

It’s ok/expected to lose weight on a trip like this.

At 145# you may not have much fat to lose.  So part of your training may be adding fat.

Another part is to be fit and have trained your body to be a good fat metabolizer.

Having 40,000 calories of “junk in the trunk” isn’t necessarily a bad way to start.

 

 

[Murali C]

My PCT-Washington section hike was 375 miles from North of Hart’s pass to slightly beyond Goat Rocks. I typically take a Nero/Zero (1.75 days) every 10 days or so. On the 485 mile CT, I did similar things – 1.75 days of downtime every 10 days or so.

Some of the PCT and AT hikers on the CT thought that the CT was harder for what it’s worth. CT was definitely steeper – so, maybe more energy burned.

[Murali C]

I think I may have over trained as well before the hike so that I had already lost some fat even before I started the hike as I wanted to put big miles from day 1 itself instead of slowly increasing my mileage.

As you say Greg, I should start eating more maybe a month before my hike rather than a week or so before my hike so that I have “junk in the trunk”. That plus add more calories per day.

Yes – agreed it is okay to lose weight on such hikes. But, wanted to limit it to lesser than 5 lbs or so, so that I don’t lose my strength/stamina.

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

You could become a menopausal woman and gain it all back with a single pint of beer.

[S Long]

I’m in the same range as you (5’10”, 145 pounds). I found that training your body to burn fat as a primary source of energy is the best way to go. Tons of information online about it, so I won’t get into details. Steve House has some excellent books on training and nutrition for endurance sports (i.e. Training for the Uphill Athlete). Fat is more dense in caloric energy than the other macro categories. I always bring olive oil with me, various types of nuts, cheese, etc. High fat, good bang for the buck stuff. I have also found that with continual light training, your body becomes MUCH more efficient at using/storing caloric energy. I eat less than a lot of my friends and can do as much or more. I attribute that to decent genetics and a lifetime (well, 30+ years) of always doing some sort of energy intensive outdoor sport.

[Pedestrian]

“I found that training your body to burn fat as a primary source of energy is the best way to go…….Steve House has some excellent books on training and nutrition for endurance sports (i.e. Training for the Uphill Athlete).”

+1

Especially important to understand “fasted” training and how to use them strategically to help your body become more fat adapted on lower intensity efforts.

Have a listen to:

“Uphill Athlete Podcast
Talking Fasted Training With Staff Performance Dietitian Rebecca Dent”

 

 

 

 

 

[Murali C]

Thanks guys. Nice to have some homework before my next hike. Will read/listen as suggested.

I too take olive oil – around 2 oz’s per dinner. I too eat lots of nuts – macadamia nuts (200 calories per oz), cashews, almonds, trail mix. I tried Greenbelly meal bars – 650 calories for lunch – along with 1 oz of nuts. Very dense and took some time to eat it. But, it grew on me. Breakfast for me is granola (grocery specialty ones like triple berry, or with almonds etc) with a granola bar before I start my hike. Around 820 calories or so. Then 2 hours or 5 miles into hike, will eat macadamia nuts. Lunch is around 12ish (Greenbelly + trail mix) by which time I would have completed 10 miles typically.  This too is around 800+ calories. At 3, I will take 1 oz cashews and 1 oz almonds and would have completed 15 miles. I also will take some gatorade around 3ish and some caramel candy – 3 of them typically to get over the last 5 miles/elevation. By 5:30/6, would complete 20 or 22 or whatever. Dinner is typically mountain house meals (2 serving or 2.5 serving ones) – cold soaked with olive oil and a energy bar – this is almost 1200 calories.

Used to road bike a lot – 2500 to 3000 miles a year. But the last 2 years – have been exclusively training with backpack (5 day food loadout) on local trail next to my house – 5.5 miles, 1000 feet elevation gain. Typically do this for 18-20 days in a month or 110 to 115 miles per month. (I am retired – so, have lots of time:-)). 1 month prior to my big hikes, I will try doing 2 to 3 sets of 3 to 4 consecutive days of 11 to 12 miles to simulate hike conditions. Since I train in Austin, TX in 100+ degree weather, I assume that 11 to 12 miles will equate to 18-20 miles of trail distance.

[Brad W]

Hiking 6 hours a day(3mph) should burn(low side) an additional 2,400 calories. Not hard to think you would be in a deficit if not eating your baseline plus burned calories.

[Aaron]

Similar to David, 100 cal/mile, but I estimate 100 cal/300 ft, but I’m 180 lbs. The vertical portion can be calculated pretty accurately. I come from cycling, and we measure kJ at the bike and human efficiency while cycling is pretty consistent. I figure the smooth efficiency of cycling is a good way to calculate addition calories from climbing after the base calories of bobbing up and down over and over walking.

[Edward John M]

Also something I have noticed. If your sleeping system is a little on the cool side I burn a lot more kilojoules at night, that might have a little bearing on my own weight loss a few winters ago

[M B]

Experience shows i lose 1/2 lb per day on short enough hikes where i can tolerate it.  Binging in town helps a little to limit it to that.

All in all the CT wasn’t that bad maybe 12 lb.

on JMT I started at 8% body fat and I finished looking like an escapee from a concentration camp.

 

I got sick 1st day of CT.   I think it was water from waterton canyon…… Because I felt fine until that evening…..and only ate two candy bars a day till I got to Breckenridge about 440 calories per day.  While hiking 19-23 mpd.  Weight loss that first week was a little above average.   Tried to make up for it in town when I got my appetite back.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Adam Kilpatrick]

The 12lb number seems realistic to me too.

Like David, I too try and eat something every hour when having hard days. You just have to force it in. Bars are much easier for this…something that a lot of newer hikers seem to miss… GORP or trail mix or “Scroggin” as Scouts in Australia like to call it is a really inefficient way to eat and get calories in (calorific density and nutrition possibilities aside). Having bars where you can get them makes a big difference too. Hipbelt pouches, or pockets on straps, etc, etc. There’s a reason why Palante’s stretch base pocket is so popular amongst ultralight and fast thru-hikers.

Also, what Edward says about sleep systems. I think on longer hikes, and longer resupply hikes, sleeping system insulation is really under-rated. Adding 2 or 3 ounces of down, a couple of ounces of extra CCF, can really make a big difference in how comfortable and warm you are. Those calories add up. Sleep quality and recovery adds up. If you sleep well at an optimum temperature your muscles overnight are going to have a better chance, all things considered, to recover, than if they have to shiver or metabolise extra to keep you warm. Which then affects the next day’s hiking efficiency, calorific expediture, etc, etc. My next quilt is going to be -7C rated, despite the fact that I rarely need something rated below 0C.

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