Lightning above treeline while in a tent

…0-10 safety scale, 10 being in a modern building or vehicle and nothing in the backcountry being safer than a three

https://blog.nols.edu/blog/blog-new/2012/08/27/lightning-safety-in-the-backcountry

great link matthew, thx

You don’t want to be the tallest object or under the tallest object.

..at night once lightning starts?

As per Mathews NOLs link, the safest course would be crouch down on your sleeping pad.  What you are trying to do is minimize the area exposed to potential current. Then there’s sleeping through it by reseating the ear plugs and rolling the dice.

Which is why I actively look at the weather forecast.  10% -20% I’ll take those odds.  Above that, as Arnold Schwarzenegger exclaimed in one of his movies “call the choppers” … ok, actually some sort shuttle bus.

Then there’s knowing the mountains.  In the Sierra I’ll probably take that chance as thunderstorms are severe but so far, very rare …  IME …again so far.  Rockies?  Severe and frequent so I won’t roll the dice unless I see a mostly clear forecast “window”.  Cascades?  It’s going to likely pour buckets for little while with relatively less lightning, .. so maybe a night in town (of course my observations may not be perfect … ymmv).

Even on linear hikes (PCT sections etc..), I’ll have pre-designated bail points if I’m not feeling lucky.

More goodness from NOLS

By coincidence, just read a mountain bikers experience getting hit by lightning while riding ..

https://www.adventure-journal.com/2021/06/what-it-feels-like-to-be-hit-by-lightng-on-your-bike/?utm_source=AJ%27s+Daily+Digest&utm_campaign=6a3f541494-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_a7cb93cd43-6a3f541494-390095545&mc_cid=6a3f541494&mc_eid=f5a053e542

He’s lucky melted plastic or metal didn’t get on his skin.  Besides the potential for burns, think the most danger is from the heart stopping (unless that’s changed).

Coincidentally I’m sitting here in a hotel the night before I hike into the Sierras for a week where the forecast is consistently 20 – 40% chance of tstorms every day and evening. Ideally I’m sleeping above or right around treeline each night and so I’m trying to decide if I should adjust plans or not. I’ll probably just see how things are looking late afternoon each day. If things seem unstable I’ll try stay lower. If it’s looking pretty clear I’ll probably go to my planned destination and hope nothing develops late evening. Or if I’m just feeling anxious about it I’ll take the safer option. I did have tstorms in mind when I set my itinerary to try and make sure I could sleep a little lower without having to significantly alter my itinerary. Oh but to have perfect conditions every time…Last year I waited out a fairly lengthy and severe tstorm high up in the Trinity Alps, crouched in my tent in the lightning position for probably about two hours while my campsite filled with water (turns out I was on top of a granite bathtub). Didn’t love that experience and hope to avoid a repeat.

Some good info on this thread. Watching the NOLS myth busters video they kept talking about ‘safer ground’ but couldn’t find anything specific about what makes for ‘safer ground’

Doing a google search found this pretty detailed article from the Colorado Lightning Date Center? with NOLS also cited : Lightning Kills

Page 3 has a pie chart with an explanation of the ways lightning ‘strikes’ individuals. Ground current is the cause of more than 50% of the strikes with your body serving as the conduit hence the lightning crouch and having your legs close together to try and equalize the current and not having it rum through your entire body and especially by/through your heart?

There is a nice representation on page 4 of various terrain and the different risks. Looks like the idea is to be in the lowest spot around with some vegetated cover and not under the taller trees? Like a valley, bowl, canyon, gully, ravine etc.? Without water?  I guess the problem with water is that is is such a good conductor?  Does this apply to little brooks, streamlets etc. that might run through the bottom of that little ravine, canyon, arroyo, gully? or just larger bodies like rivers and lakes?

The figure #3 on the 5th page about standing under overhangs, rock shelters and even porches and possibly becoming a lightning ‘bridge’ got my attention. Porches. Overhangs. Oh My. Looks like crouching under the rim of that big rock is out!

yeah

get into valley with a bunch of trees much taller than you

lightning seeks the tallest objects

the problem with water is if you’re in a boat in a lake, then you’re the tallest object around

Wait, someone is saying thunderstorms are rare in the Sierra?! My experience is very limited, but 4/5 days I spent on trail in 2019 included massive storms starting earlier each day until I was hearing thunder at 8am.  A massive bolt and boom when I was on top of Island pass. The smell was most notable (other than the noise literally striking terror into me and the other stragglers on top of the pass). After that strike, everyone I met coming the other direction looked like they had PTSD, even one child weeping. Don’t know if she’ll ever go backpacking with mom and dad again!

someone is saying thunderstorms are rare in the Sierra

It’s been my recent experience though I’ve camped in some  thunderstorms up there, of course … some packing a whallop, some ..meh.    I’ve been a late June visitor so there may be different weather later in summer?

This summer Sierra trip, I’m actually the same situation  as june r above, staying in lodging until the next few days of thunderstorms dies down.

The Rockies and now the Sierra has me pondering about using UL to seek even lower elevations and forest cover in the PM.

^^ Newman you just need to find one of Shorty Lovelace’s cabins.

Be snug as a bug in a rug.

I’ve been in tons of lightning storms in the Sierra. I think the worst tend to come in from the east on monsoonal moisture; they can stick around all day and night for days on end. The more typical afternoon t-storms form and then dissipate at evening, like nothing happened. It’s good to know the difference and camp with that in mind. I don’t really mind the afternoon storms unless I’m crossing a pass. And I don’t do that if I can help it, but wait things out. Still, I’ve been surprised and had to skeddadle more than once. Not fun!

The thin soil in the Sierra and Trinity can make a real soup out of a campsite in a hurry. I’ve miscalculated that way a few times as well (see, trail overflowing and a stream cascading down into my tent.)

If I see a weather report with monsoonal moisture coming in, I don’t go.

Following up on my earlier response now that I’m back from my 6-day northern Sierra trip. I had storms 5 of the 6 days, all were significant and lasted several hours. It was a bit hard to tell but it appeared the storms formed on the east slope. Most days puffy clouds started forming by about 10am. On the worst day, it started raining around noon and the brunt of the storm hit around 2, and mostly heavy rain stuck around until 7pm or so. The storms sometimes seemed to come in waves, as if there were more than one coming at you. The better days I had until about 4pm before the worst of the storm hit. One of the storms brought pea-sized hail, each brought at least some amount of heavy rain (making it important to assess drainage of a campsite before setting up). There was little wind except at the very tail end of each storm. I was surprised how slow moving these storms were. I often couldn’t even tell which way the clouds were moving because they were moving so slowly, or not at all.

I was glad I had an itinerary that lent itself to modification, because all but the first night I both had to camp well below where I had planned and had to come up with a new plan for the next day since I hadn’t made it to my planned destination. All my previous trips to the Sierra have been in September. On those trips I’ve only had minor brushes with tstorms and have mostly been able to camp above treeline without concern. My takeaway is that during peak summer it’ll be important to have a flexible itinerary in case exposed camping and hiking aren’t safe options.

On a positive note, this was my first opportunity to test out the Xmid in adverse conditions. I was pleased how quickly I was able to get the fly up (my timing was such that each time I managed to get my shelter up mere moments before the deluge hit) and appreciated the ability to pitch the fly separate from the inner (though I found the corner clips to attach the inner to the fly extremely annoying and difficult to do, usually having to lay on my stomach and reach with two hands to clip/unclip). I didn’t get to see how it’ll do in a lot of high wind, but the few gusts that came through didn’t seem to be a problem. Particularly on the afternoon where I hunkered for many hours in the tent, I was grateful for the spacious vestibules which gave me some room to spread out and avoid feeling claustrophobic.

Thank you for following up. It sounds like you had an adventure. May I ask what area you were in?

I was in northern Yosemite, meandering around the area north of the PCT between Virginia and Slide canyons. Despite the lack of cooperation of the weather, it was still a good trip. The mornings were perfect, post-storm sunsets lovely, and you can’t go wrong with even a plan B, C, D itinerary in the Sierra.

I start my JMT hike this Friday. Where is the best link to find the forecasts for lighting? How do you check while you’re in the backcountry if there is supposed to be a storm?

Josh, I don’t think you can. July typically has afternoon thunderstorms popping up but they can’t be forecast. You just have to work your way with and around them. They’ll dissipate at night and don’t tend to present rain issues other than sudden intense downpours that can surprise you with their intensity. You have to plan to be well below taller peaks around you and it’s cool.

that said, I would look at weather forecasts, and especially for weather coming in from the south and east of the Sierra. These can result in real long lasting rain and lightning events that last throughout the evening. Often they’re associated with moisture coming in from a hurricane or storm off the shores of Mexico.

Josh, I was getting weather updates via my Garmin InReach last week and also had a friend send me a few weather.gov updates for my location (also via InReach). Neither ever really matched up with each other and neither ever seemed very accurate. I think it’s just too hard to predict weather in the mountains. I kept an eye on the sky which basically told me if storms were developing. The hard part was a) not knowing what time they’d really let loose and b) how long they’d persist and how intense they’d be. I had a couple storms last week linger and drop a lot of rain over several hours, and be thundering/lightning for an hour or longer. Other times I’ve been in the Sierra I’ve had two big cracks of thunder, five mins of heavy rain, and then all clear. It’s just hard to predict and the forecasts didn’t help me very much last week.

You can get weather reports in an InReach from Garmin (and I believe this free service still works). Here’s a photo of a weather report on mine from the JMT in 2015.

In the end it’s probably better to read a little bit about clouds so that you can recognize what is/is not likely to create lightning and adjust plans accordingly.

The mornings were perfect, post-storm sunsets lovely, and you can’t go wrong with even a plan B, C, D itinerary in the Sierra.

Yes! Even with plan B, C, or D you are still in a unique, gorgeous place. I’m glad you had a good trip!

(though I found the corner clips to attach the inner to the fly extremely annoying and difficult to do, usually having to lay on my stomach and reach with two hands to clip/unclip). I didn’t get to see how it’ll do in a lot of high wind, …

Why not leave the inner clipped in so it’s already there when you have to deploy the tent quickly?

Todd, I was keeping it attached but then was finding I preferred being able to get the fly up without the inner for those times when I needed quick shelter to dive under with my wet gear. If the inner was attached, given the conditions, it would have been harder to quickly get under while still keeping that dry. Same for packing up in the morning when the fly was still soaking wet, worked better to pack up the inner separately otherwise it would have gotten soaked from the dripping fly. In other conditions, keeping it attached is the way to go.

Last summer two mountain bikers were killed by a lightning in the mountains near where I live. They were caught while riding close to the ridge line separating two valleys, in an exposed area.

I have ordered the NOLS lightning book to gain a better understanding, but in any case I now realise summer alpine thunderstorms are more dangerous than I thought, as on a:

0-10 safety scale, 10 being in a modern building or vehicle, nothing in the backcountry [is] safer than a three.

This statement worries me, since here in the Italian Alps afternoon thunderstorms are pretty common in the summer. I don’t understand how this can be compatible with camping.

In July I was in the Eastern Alps, visiting Mount Pasubio, where Italians and Austrians fought the 1st World War. The first night was perfect, so I camped in a meadow near a saddle. Forecasts were pretty bad for the following night, so at midday I went down, and the second night I chose a campsite under treeline:

It rained heavily all night, and the morning there were many thunders, but in that spot I didn’t feel in danger. Reading the NOLS blog, however, I shouldn’t probably have felt particularly safe.

My main concern is during alpine treks, though, when often it’s not feasible to descend under treeline, hence campsite options being limited to exposed areas.

In an August trip, I got to a high saddle near midday. The usual afternoon thunderstorm was expected, so I tried and climbed down quickly. Around 16 pm I pitched my tent where the green tent icon is depicted in this map:

Several other hikers preferred the lower spot with the orange marker, near the lake. The blue mark indicates a spot I considered, since it was suggested in a trip report I had read, but in the end I discarded it.

Here is a pic I took slightly higher than my campsite, to give you an idea of the area:

Few seconds of the following video can give you an even better idea:

At around 17 pm the expected thunderstorm hit, lasting only half an hour or so. Thunders were not really close, but it was only chance.

What I don’t understand is how you can safely camp in the mountains in summer, being thunderstorms the rule rather than the exception. Is going as low as possible, in the woods, the only sensible thing to do?

Please help me so I can make better judgement next summer season!