Lightest Ultralight Pack with a Frame?

Seek Outside, Six Moons Designs, Vargo all make light external frame packs

Other than zpacks arc packs, here are some of your options.

ULA Ohm is ~32.5oz with all the options. If you remove the following things from the pack you can drop it down to ~27oz.

• Hydration Sleeve (~1.4 oz)
• Internal Stash Pocket (~1.1 oz)
• Water Bottle Holsters (~0.8 oz)
• Handloops (~0.8 oz)
• Foam Pad (~1.5 oz)

Gossamer Gear Gorilla 40L is 34-36oz depending on size.

Gossamer Gear Marioposa 60L is 31-35oz depending on size.

Six Moon Designs Fusion 50 is 49oz.

Check out KS Ultralight as well. Not sure it’s the lightest, but it would have to be close. Depending of course on the features/functions you get.

Here is a review by Matthew S on his KS Ultralight 40L pack with frame in dyneema. Weighs 16oz. 

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/review-ks-40-dyneema-backpack-by-ks-ultralight/

Here is an example from Michael M with two configurations, also both with a frame but with more options, weighing 602g / 21.2oz and 701g / 24.7oz respectively.

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/ks-ultralight-help-me-configure-this-bad-boy-please/

Elemental Horizons Kalais is 31 oz. with a main pack volume around 40L and it compresses beautifully.  I believe it is the lightest next to the ArcHaul other than the Ohm but lighter than the Circuit.

The HMG Windriver 2400 (40L) is about 28oz. It has removable stays.

<8oz    SUL

8-16oz UL

16-32oz Light

32-48oz Regular

48-64oz Heavy

>64oz: ridiculously heavy

None of the SUL or UL packs around 40L have a frame. They use lighter stays if at all. They are NOT the same thing.

As James described I suppose a definition of “frame” is needed. I did end up ordering the KS50 and this was the configuration I went with:

I could have saved 1.38oz going with 13mm strapping but I figured that while the strapping would have been fine, where there was a buckle I know I would have preferred a large one as I find the 15mm buckles already pretty tiny. I intend to use this with a sit light pad which weighs 1.6oz so the total pack weight would be around  22.16oz. Thats really light for a pack configured like this. Of course I can leave behind the stays, side pouches, sternum strap and use the OHM like side compression to cinch it down as a day pack and cut weight even further.

Depends on your definition of “frame.” I’ve got a couple of the Mountain Laurel Designs packs with the “lightweight suspension upgrade.”  Basically,

Upgrade Includes:
• Inflatable Klymit Suspension Airbeam Pad 3oz
• Internal Pad Pocket 1oz
• Load Lifters 1oz

I replace the inflatable pad with two sections of a ZRest pad cut appropriately.  Works well for me, and makes the pack carry a bit better.

Not only the definition of frame but also what is the real load you intend to carry with that “frame”.

Well, I think of a frame as a tree or four sided structure. two stays do not work. Thay are allowed to move independently of the others. Adding CCF pad (Nightlight, Z-Rest, etc) between two stays, stiffening the independent action, would qualify. But then it becomes a piece of dual usage gear. Hard to place. Pad, if it your only one? Frame if you have another pad?

Anyway. The Pad Keepers on the KS packs are weak. They need some sort of pocket to prevent flexing. Remove the flex and three layers of pad will carry 30-35 pounds easily. Try taping three Nightlights together. With the flex, they only support about 1/3 of that.

I just bought an Zpacks Arc Haul and a Seek Outside Divide. After walking around the house with each loaded up, the Divide one and the Arc Haul got shipped back today.

I took the Divide on a Rae Lakes trip last weekend and it was awesomely comfortable. If I was always under 20 lbs, maybe I would have chosen the Arc Haul (though the trampoline back didn’t keep me too cool when walking around the house.)

For an extra 1.5 lbs with the Divide: I get significantly more space (I think its 94 liters), I can fit a bear vault 500 in it sideways. Sideways. Yet, the pack still compresses really well. The hipbelt was super comfortable. The frame and pack hugged me very well–I could run down steep sections of the trail and and had a fun time doing it.

I had just under 27 lbs in the pack for the trip. (Base weight around 12-14 with a BV 500 normally). Since the pack carries so well I took luxuries I might have mathematically eliminated with the Arc Haul.

Yes. But the Seek Outside is NOT an Ultralight pack as queried by the OP. It is well over 2.5 pounds. I usually carry about 23-27 pounds for two week trips out. (Kind’a depends on what I am doing…photo work is always the heaviest.)

the divide carries weight exceptionally well over 30 lbs … but if yr not constantly carrying over 20 lbs at least its probably a bit of a waste

the issue with the divide for some folks may be the shoulder straps … the spacing is very wide, in fact the widest of any pack ive seen yet … theres ways around it, but if one is a smaller frame person with narrower shoulders then the fit might not be ideal

as for mobility … i come from a world of alpine and climbing packs so most my other packs i can climb moderate to higher 5th class in (up to 5.10-) … the divide is not one of those packs, nor is it meant to be, its a load carrier plain and simple (which it does very well)

i feel the need to interject this here because while the divide is an excellent pack for its purpose … i myself bought into some of the hype about it being “the best pack”, “fits anyone”, “excellent mobility” …

there is no such thing as a perfect pack for everyone

as to the original question … except for academic purposes its fairly irrelevant

after shoes the pack is the item that MUST fit well … an extra pound of a perfectly fitting pack over the lighter weight of a “decently” fitting pack is a price thats easily and well paid …

theres so many framed packs in the 800-1200g range these days that you will easily find one that fits you very well if you look around and try long enough …

;)

Thread drift alert:@jamesdmarco you can pull off a 23lb pack weight for a 2 week trip!? Please share your list! I want to know what I’d have to live without :)

@jamesdmarco . I agree with this list, but to be more useful it could be correlated to pack volume and ideally max weight carried.

OP asks for 40 liter and framed. As you say, that pretty much rules out SUL and makes traditional UL challenging. In my opinion, there are times when UL means carrying 40+lbs: Winter trips, packrafting, climbing gear, the addition of heavy hobbies (pro photography, etc), 14 days of food. Without UL strategies the weight in such scenarios would be a lot more. In other words, a 3 lbs well thought out pack capable of carrying 60 lbs no problem is UL in my book.

<8oz SUL

8-16oz UL

16-32oz Light

32-48oz Regular

48-64oz Heavy

>64oz: ridiculously heavy

Well, thread drift aside, no UL packs exist with a frame, exept some custom stuff made by people for a specific purpose. This is a favorite topic here and comes up at least once or twice per year. People are always cobbling stuff together. Check out the SUL list for more info. Most believe SUL and UL are the same…different animals.

As far as pack weight goes, I often hike the ~150 mile NPT in the ADK Mountains of NY. This is a typical list for two weeks out. It was rerouted recently making it a lot longer.

1. Food: 1 packet oatmeal: 1.625oz. <3 cups coffee, 4 individual drink mixes:> 1.50oz. One-5.80oz packet of rice. 2oz jerkey/pepperoni. 3oz of some sort of chocolate bars. 2-3oz protein bar (call it 2.5oz average.) Total 16.425oz, call it 16.5oz per day. For 13 days (no breakfast the first day and no supper the last: 214.5oz or 13.75 pounds.
2. My pack is a MiniPosa (15oz), my pad is a NeoAir Xlite (12oz), My dity bag weighs about 9oz and contains odds and ends (batteries, salt, red pepper, duct tape, hair brush, eLight, 2 Impulse-water proof lights, bear line, a hank of chord.) Light Fleece: 7oz. Down jacket: 13oz, Extra pair of sleeping socks: 3oz. Revelation Quilt 20F: 21oz. 2liter Platty: 2oz (carried empty.) Steripen Opti/batteries plus two 500ml water bottles: 6oz. Tarp, guylines & stakes: 18oz. Pot, stove, cup, canister(incl fuel-deducted later:) 24oz. Hiking Staff (homemade) 4.5oz. Total:    142.5oz or 8.785 pounds.
3. Map is in my pocket and compass is around my neck.

So, 8.785 pounds plus 13.75 pounds is 22.535 or around 22.6 pounds. I often have some candy with me, since I am diabetic, so around 23-24 pounds does it. Trip duration about 14 days out, solo. I loose about 5 pounds per week. I can *easily* afford it, ha, hey.

Your “day’s worth of food” is my lunch

Yeah, 2700C is not for everyone. By the end of the first week, I feel really good though. Moving well (18-22mi/day,) no longer working on the upgrades, no longer feeling slightly nauseous from the muscle work. The first couple days are pretty hard…I try to make at least 12-14mi per day. Then 17, 18 and 20 and by the end of 7 days out I am back to 18-22 avg.  But, I’m an old man, too…with a slow old man’s metabolism. Hunger doesn’t usually bother me, I just work a bit harder and forget it. It feels good to burn off extra sugar.

Anyway, a bald statement about UL packs means nothing. In spring I take fishing gear and my camera for 27 pounds for a week. Still no frame, just a couple stays. But, I take the same gear, otherwise. In fall I will add a 21″, 14oz saw to cut up the logs all the people left (5-6″ logs they could not break to burn.) Soo? There are Ultra-Light Philosophies that say just minimal gear. Others stick to the numbers. It’s a matter of It Doesn’t Really Matter. Conditions on the trail pretty much dictate what you bring. You wouldn’t really bring a -20F bag, a fully insulated R-7 pad, a 21″ saw and 2.5 pounds of food per day in high summer would you? Yet this is UL gear for winter.

Asking for a UL Pack automagically means less than 1 pound. Asking for a Light pack means less than 2 pounds. Somehow all the manufacturers keep adding weights to their packs but “conveniently”  forget to change the labels. A true UL pack from the 90’s is “conveniently” forgotten. And they ignore the definitions and meanings behind what they are selling because the stigma of a 10 year old pack, true to a UL definition, is an onus none of us wants to have on our reputations.  Ahhhh….forget it. I’m just in a sour mood today. Sorry to all…

Built a pack couple years ago with a full frame, not just stays.  Have back issues, so built one that transfers about 95% of the weight to my hips but allows rotation between the pack frame and hip belt frame, so I can bend / twist / rotate when scrambling.   (Applied for a patent on the hip belt to pack frame connection)   Was trying for light weight but also wanted to be able to go off trail thru brush.   Got some “Full Spectra with Cuben Fiber laminate” from McHale for fabric and built the frame out of graphite composite.   Designed to carry up to 50 pounds with a safety factor of 3.  I had 75 pounds in it but normally carry 15 to 30 pounds.    It holds 48.9 liters and weighs 866 grams,  61.8 liters and 1072 grams with the removable top and front pockets.  A 10-1/2 long bearikade fits horizontal just behind the top of the Tee frame.   “That’s the hip frame that rotates forward that’s holding the pack up.

My previous pack: BPL Absaroka had a single aluminum tube bent and inserted.

My current pack is the Z-Packs Arc Blast which is 10 oz lighter and far more comfortable, functional, and adjustable.

The primary reason I even care about the “frame” on the Arc Blast is that I can bend it away from my body and create space for air to circulate around my low back. This is a huge benefit in my mind and the first I’ve seen of its kind in the lightweight world. It was the number one thing I was looking for and that I was frustrated about with the Absaroka.

In addition, I would say that comfort and load transfer is critical in a pack. I think the Arc Blast does an amazing job of this. I can dial in the fit and comfort at my waist and feel it pivot as I move. I’ve been able to remove almost all load from my shoulders which has greatly improved the feel of my neck at the end of a long hike.

While I wanted light weight, I was not willing to sacrifice comfort or usability. The comfort and functionality of the Arc Blast make it a big winner for me.

I only really need 50L, but I purchased the 60L just in case as the weight was not a significant factor.

With one shoulder pouch, two waist pouches, the internal wallet pouch, and a bag for my trekking poles, it comes in at 25.2 oz for the full pack + drybag liner.

It feels great crawling through downed trees, and scrambling over rocks, as well as jogging. It has held up great against walking through fields of pricker bushes.

I use a Luxury Light frame with a Gossamer Gear pack strapped on instead of the tubes that come with the LL. Not UL but about 2 lbs. and it carries a bear canister like magic on the bottom flange of the frame. Air circulation for your back, but you can cinch it to your back for scrambling. Most comfortable hip belt ever. Robust. Most of all it transfers almost all of the weight to your hips. Just looks odd.

Scott,

I used the KS Ultralight KS40 this summer in Isle Royale, the 100 Mile Wilderness, the Colorado Trail, and even kayaking on Georgian Bay and it performed very well. For base weights from 1-14lbs, the metal stays plus the foam pad are an effective frame, it’s odd to me that some are qualifying this. The metal stays and foam pad, from a physics perspective are vectoring the forces to the desired resultant, your hips. These forces don’t change regardless of what pack you use. The KS40 also keeps the load closer to your body.

If I were to reorder, I would try TX07 fabric and do without the mesh pad holders. I’ve been using a 1/2in piece of oware foam as the back pad and it’s better than the thicker GG sitlight. This would take the weight from 16oz down to ~14oz. 14oz for a framed pack is outstanding.

^ I really like the Ohm as a pack, but the KS Ultralight KS40 certainly does not seem to have any less of a frame than an Ohm or something similar (with a Delron rod and a thin foam pad).

Ito,

YES ,the OHM 2.0 DOES have a more substantial frame and suspension than the KS pack Mike touts here.

First , the uprights on each side of the OHM frame are made of carbon fiber and mounted inside the pack’s outer edge. Combined with the arched delrin strut running along the top connecting the two stays, it creates a tensioned hoop that keep the back sides spread to prevent barrelling and provides a solid attachment point for the load lifters .

Also the hip belt and shoulder straps on the OHM are much beefier and the hip belt has built in pockets.

These things account for the 10 to 12 oz weigh diff between a stripped OHM and the KS pack.

The KS pack is a nice one pound pack but its suspension simply is not in the same league as the OHM 2.0, IMHO.

In this case, more IS more..