Light Down sleeping bag rated 30s that will do the job in 20s for $250 or less?

I am a cold sleeper who prefers the zipper of a bag to  quilts. I got an EE Convert last year and I like it. I also prefer not having the hood part of a sleeping bag, I save weight and can keep my head warm with a hat. Last year EE had a sale in December and I got a 20 degree Convert for around $250.

“You are going to have to ADD a down jacket and long johns to get a 30 F. down bag to 20 F.”

Depends on the person. You may have to; I didn’t have to. Results will inevitably vary with the individual. In my case, for instance, I have a pretty high metabolism and sleep on the warm side. I also eat half my daily protein at dinner time, which generates extra heat to warm my bag. YMMV, but I can safely say a down jacket is not universally mandatory.

Over the years I’ve owned bags from several different manufactures, including WM (a Puma, rated to -25°F and $$$$) as well as bags from Campmor (very nice +25 650FP made by god knows who), MH, TNF and even a Wiggy’s, I am a little embarrassed to admit. I think there was an LL Bean in there early on, and likely others.

And yes also a couple of Marmots. The most recent was a Plasma 15, which was a superb bag and I sold it only because I finally made the commitment to move to quilts. And it seems to me that if Sebastian wants to spend a little less money — and most of us have been there at some point — the Marmot Helium would not be a bad choice at all since Marmot is definitely one of the better larger brand manufacturers.

Sebastion, Did you weigh it:?) As in Bob’s post it is a lot more than that for the 3S plus. It looks like a lesser bag, the 2S plus.

To convert to decimal from fraction, you need to divide. Google has better instructions. But 2#10 or 2#13 means two pounds ten ounces and two pounds thirteen ounces for the long. It is not written as 2.13 since ounces is a base 16 number. This would be written as 2.6250pounds for 2#10 and 2.8667pounds for 2#13. If it truely weighs 2.13pounds, then it is NOT a 3S, and likely a mislabeled 2S.

As Bob says, take it back and get a better bag, IFF you can afford it. If not, plan on pushing it with extra clothing, long johns and socks. The EE Convert is a nice bag. The EN ratings always assume a base layer (long johns,) socks and head cover (if not on the bag.) Marmot is good. I have a Super Stretch Down Huger 0, about 10 years old, but it is really a 10F bag, at something lighter than this bag. (I believe it was 2#9 or 2.5625pounds. I use this late fall and early spring when the 40F bag plus a push is not enough. Good bag, but not as compressible as the WM and several ounces heavier.) WM/Feathered Friends are both excellent.

Check the loft by laying it out and fluffing it up on a flat surface. Then measure to the highest loft for both layers. If it is not 4″, then it is not a warm enough bag for 20F unless you sleep VERY warm and have a GOOD pad rated at R5 or R6. Loft means more than weight when it starts getting cold.

Anyway, you can only push a bag so far. When it starts to feel tight, it is actually compressing the down inside, removing loft. It usually means you hit a wall. You can push a bag maybe 10F or 15F. Adding two or three pounds of clothing after that will NOT help the temp rating, unless you open the bag and use it as a quilt to relieve the pressure on the down. Adding cloths or a quilt over a bag, means you compress it. Unless the add-ons do more for insulation value than you loose with the compression, it doesn’t change the TOTAL insulation value (it may reduce it.)

Looks like a good opportunity for a DIY project.  For under $250 you could make a sleeping bag with 16 oz of top quality down and about 8 oz for the shell.  There are a number of DIY threads here and on the hammock forum.  Many folks with modest (or better) sewing skills make some great quilts and sleeping bags.  There are lots of decent, used sewing machines out there for sub $100.

The 3S weighs 2lbs 15 oz with a compression sack, I have a scale.

Where would I take any bag to add down in Atlanta?

I will never make my own; not my jam.

enjoying this thread! :)

In the spirit of this thread I have a Mountain Hardwear Phantom 0 that has been a great, very warm bag. It weighs 2lb9oz according to the manufacturer. It goes down to the 20s pretty well and it’s my shoulder season bag. I think I got a deal on it, but I paid around $250 at that time.

The only bummer is that I got the right-zip variant, which is way harder to use as a right-handed person. I think such a bag would work quite well for you.

Im gonna keep the Zissou 3S i think its a very warm bag and will test in the Smokies in 2 weeks and if it sucks ill return it. So i also will get a Hydrogen on sale for other seasons.

You want a bag that significantly over performs it’s rating at a cheap price.

Of course.

Certainly, if you’re carrying a big warm puffy down jacket anyway, this will supplement the bag. But you’re just carrying the weight of insulation in one form or another. My guess is that it’s more efficient to put the down in the bag to begin with, and then carry an appropriate, probably lighter, down garment which you can then use on really cold nights to supplement a better bag, if needed.

I use a Marmot Helium and Hydrogen and find their temp. ratings to be spot on. Others here have made the same observation over the years.

One more round of decision making, hear me out….

-I don’t truly have enough trip experience to know what I need. Not sure if like many of you here, I should have two bags. No I’m not out backpacking every other weekend. But I am UL conscious but not hardcore.

-I dont want a quilt (tried one, no thanks) nor a WM (bc ithey are too much $ and I cant return if I dont like).

So with my given choices that I can buy at REi, here is what I could do….3 scenarios:

A. Zissou 3S will be plenty warm for 20’s/30s for me; $160. 2 lbs, 15oz – Ok this is on the heavy side; I wont be going to the Rockies with it. So in theory, I could use this bag for 3S and southeast summer and winter trips. Only bag. $160

B. Zissou above + Hydrogen 30 degree bag which weighs 1lb 11oz which would run me about $270. So both $430.  Do I want 2 bags and I will be happy to have the lighter Hydrogen for non chilly weather trips?

C. Neither of the above, get marmot Helium for $400, 15/20’s bag, weighs 2lbs, 4 oz. My only bag.

Thoughts? :)

For me, C.  But I would wait until I could get one on Gearswap or on sale (you can usually find 20% off).  I picked up a Helium on Gearswap for $200 for my Dad earlier this year.

C. Neither of the above, get marmot Helium for $400, 15/20’s bag, weighs 2lbs, 4 oz. My only bag.

Thoughts? :)

Another vote for C

However, for summer in the SE you will want something even lighter unless you plan to camp only at higher (and cooler) elevations. My summer quilt is an EE Rev 50 that weighs 11.3 oz and practically disappears in the bottom of a 28 liter pack. :^)

I’d stick with the $160 bag.  You said it yourself you’re not out every weekend and honestly I don’t think you’re going to notice the weight.

A) above. I am with Todd on this. Keep the 3pound Zissou. Over time, your hiking will either increase or decrease. If it increases, you will want another bag, just not overlapping the one you have, either the same weight but much more cold weather capable, or, a much lighter 35F bag. Maybe by then you can afford multiple bags…

Having too warm a bag for summer can be miserable. Open it up, and the bugs get you so, you carry a heavy, fully enclosed tent. (You might want one anyway with the scorpions, snakes in the South East.) This means you heat up the tent and cannot sleep.

Having too cold of a bag can be miserable. You toss and turn, huddling into a ball to stay warm. You wake up every half hour with something stiff, if, you managed to sleep at all. Too cold often means you cannot sleep.

Stick with down and KEEP IT DRY. It has more temperature resiliency than synthetics. Sweat(too hot) means it will collapse, loosing loft and becoming less effective. Cold means no sweat, keeping the down dry and fluffy.

I think the comment about not having enough trip experience to know what you need is really the key here. I took my first-ever backpacking trip about 4 years ago, and during the intervening time (and a few thousand miles), I’ve had 8 sleeping bags/quilts pass through my quiver at some time or another as I tired to suss out what I wanted through trial and error. (9 if you count a bag that I ordered but never used/opened before returning) Even though I’ve recouped a lot of the costs of these purchases through resale, it’s been a tremendously expensive learning experience.

The bag you mentioned seems to strike a decent compromise of cost and function (albeit not so much on the weight side of things), and probably isn’t a bad thing to stick with if you’re not going out a ton- it’s certainly not the $60 piece of junk from Amazon that I took out on my first trip and was probably 30* off of its temperature rating. Taking the time to learn yourself- your temp thresholds, how/when you get cold when maybe you shouldn’t, what you like/don’t like about the bag, if you even like mummy bags, etc. will ultimately give you a better idea of what you want and where to look for it.

Long-term, I very much agree that a good down bag is worth the cost (I think my own search has finally ended with Zpacks, but I need to test that a bit more to be sure). Short-term, there’s nothing wrong with heading out with a decent, warm, and functional bag that saves some money. If you’re mostly doing weekends, you’re not really going to notice the extra pound in your pack, especially if you manage the weight of the rest of your gear.

I had 2 marmot hydrogens …. Both had no or very little fill in one of the baffles out of the box …. Hold yr quilt/bag up to the light when u get it

i also had a MH phantom 28 …. The shell was quite airtight, taking forever to stuff it

whatever bag u buy make sure you can return it with free shipping

if u look through the history of BPL and other places … Its littered with post of folks unhappy with the quilt/bag purchases … Which is why so many here own so many different ones

there will be tons of sales coming up during the holidays … So pick yr poison

;)

Marmot bags have a tendency to turn up on sale new from a variety of dealers. I vote for the Helium if you’re often out below 30% temps.

but at the risk of contradicting myself, the Hydrogen is a light bag that I’ve taken below 30% while wearing a down jacket and–this is important-blocking the wind out of my double wall tent–just fine. (Me and my two friends spent a miserable night in the wind one night when the temps dropped below 30% in comparable bags.) But I carry a big puffy and few layers as a matter of course. A single wall tent may be another matter entirely.