Katabatic Helios Size (Volume)?

Well, I have used the 2012 Murmur(then redesigned) on trips up two weeks. This was identical to the 2012 Kumo(virtually unchanged) in size. The 16oz Kumo is a LOT lighter than the 31oz listed for the Helios 40. Adding an aluminum stay will make the Helios heavier at around 33oz.

A lot of the carry capacity(weight) of the Kumo/Murmur was dependent on the sleeping pad you use. A 3 layer pad provides support op to about 30 pounds in the pad keepers (not figured in as part of the volume or carry capacity on the GG site.)  So, including the extra 200-400ci for a sleeping pad, they are about the same size as the Helios 40. Just looking at the specs, you wouldn’t gain any size difference, but with a stay, they will carry more comfortably. With a 3 layer pad in the Kumo, it will carry about the same as a Helios with stays, so no real advantage.

Going with the Helios 55, it is clearly larger in volume and weight at 32.3oz. Of the two packs in question, I would go with this one (the Helios 55.) You pay a bit more than a half pound in weight over a lighter pack, though. With a 2oz aluminum stay it will go around 34oz (2pounds 2oz). I usually switch packs for more than two weeks out, or, if I bring my camera gear/fishing gear.

Rather than spending a punch of dollars on a new pack, try reducing your carry volume. Use a tri-fold pad. Use a compression sack for the bag/quilt. This will leave more room for supplies. Carry smaller volume but equally effective stuff(E+Light, Steripen, tarp, and dehydrated bulk foods.) Anyway, I can use the Kumo size for everything up to two weeks without skimping on anything. ‘Corse, it might be just as many dollars if you don’t have the low volume stuff. You might need to budget food into two bear bags for 10 days, though the Kumo will fit three: a compression bag, 2 stuff sacks.

Thanks James,

Wow … you can get 14 days of food plus gear in your Murmur?  I guess I may need to revisit this, but my last 4 day trip was pretty tight.  I had temperatures down into the mid teens at night, so had a 20 degree quilt along.  Daytime highs were in the 30’s.  Not unusual conditions for ealrly to mid November in this area.  I may need to look into more compact equipment, like you say.  My base weight for the trip was 8.5 pounds.  Not usually using a tarp, but my solo hexamid is not huge.  I’m sure a tarp would save some space.

In any case, I clearly need to revisit this if you’re able to stay out 3 times as long as I can with basically the same pack.  I have a little time think about this.  Still running dogs and skiing here, though looks like the weather is going to change starting today and we may have an early spring.

Thank you again for your suggestions.

David, Yes, 14 days in 3 seasons is not too bad. Winter hiking (<25F) would be different, though. I switch

Yes, small volume is the way I chose to go, mostly. I have a Hexamid, but don’t use it much, it is pretty bulkey. I pack a shaped tarp similar to Yama’s Cirriform but a bit longer/wider. It is not cuben, rather silnylon. It weighs more but packs much tighter. Really easy, I just roll it up, then roll the roll into a circle…it just fits into my grease pot.But two weeks is about it, my pack is pretty full.

Less than 8oz in the ditty bag includes first aid (duct tape,) spare batteries for my Steripen, bear line, a spare lighter, E+Light, spare water treatment(5 days), and other odds and ends.

The compression/dry bag holds my quilt, sleeping socks, long johns, and down jacket.This is compressed down to around 10″ long. The Murmur ’12/Kumo is around 4.5″ thick so it takes the pressure off the seams by forcing the fablic to wrap around the 6″ bag, not the seam. The 5 layer pad (about 53″ long) is used for my pack frame, making things very stiff.

My food is usually in one or two small/mid sized drybags (around 6″ in diameter, again.) So the three bags don’t quite fill the pack at 18″ high. The bag main compartment is 22″. The pot/shelter, spoon, pot top, stakes, a piece of aluminum foil and a fleece jacket make up the rest of the main compartment, slightly overfilling it. Map and compass are always in my pants pocket.

Svea goes into my left pocket along with the wind screen, lighter, fill cap. 2 water bottles (or one larger one) go into the right pocket. Extra fuel goes into the front pouch along with a ground cloth, emergency blanket, and other odds and ends (drink mixes, lunch bars, camera/phone, rain jacket…)

The steripen and some drink mixes go into my right hip-belt pocket. My left hip belt pocket usually has some chocolate MM’s, and two bottles of 100% DEET.

Not counting food, fuel and water, base weight is 8-11 pounds, depending on the weather. So, roughly at the same base weight, but the gear takes up LOT less space, making it fairly easy to carry.

Food: often bulk baggies of cocoa, coffee, pepperoni/salami, dried beef, a pound of cheese and a small baggie of bisquick. Packets of rice (Knor Rice Sides) are pierced with a pin, then extra air is squeezed out. Chicken noodle soup, ministroni, pasta fazool, and parafied butter/olive oil make up most of my food. I forage for mustard greens, burdock, wild carrots, danelion greens, apples (often green) and other fresh stuff. Oister mushrooms, “pinkies”, and a few other mushrooms I know are often added.

Anyway, small is easy to carry making the pack fit close to your body. Not hanging out to snags, etc. This is about how everything fits for a two week trip.

WELL…..

I started with the Helios 40 and loved the streamlined nature of it.  I was going to take it on my Colorado Trail thru, but decided at the last minute to swap it out for a 55 (which meant I wouldn’t have it in time for my thru hike) because the 40 was TOO perfect of a size.  And by that I mean I had NO extra room for anything.  No bulky water carries (I do a lot of desert hiking, and there were some stretches on the CT for bigger water carries), no 10+ food days.  And for a pack that expensive I decided to go with the 55.  The good thing about the Helios design, tho, is that it really does cinch down a lot.  I’ve used the 55 on a 5 day Big Bend (5-6L of water and 5 days of food to start) and I still had room to spare – so I cinched it down and it carried beautifully.  I also just used it on a quick weekend overnighter just to see what it did with the super small load – and ta-da!  No worries at all.  FOR ME, the pack really hugs my back and I get no flopping around, no swing – it really feels like a part of me.

So for the flexibility, especially since you have a smaller pack for those small-volume trips, I’d go with the 55.  It’s a great pack and if it works for you you’ll fall in love…..

I think SectionHiker.com did a review on a Helios 55.

Jennifer,

Thank you.  That’s exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping to get.  I did send a message to Katabatic, but was hoping to get some real world feedback as well.  I do most of my hiking in northeastern Minnesota, so water is not usually a huge issue and I do not see myself doing a 500 mile through hike anytime soon, but am looking to try and work in some longer hikes this season (as long as my long suffering wife will take care of the sled dogs when I’m away).

James Marco has given me some pointers to try and stretch the pack I have to work for the trips I have planned and I am going to look into whether I can make my little pack work for the longer hikes but probably not quite as long as he does.  I am thinking that he may not like eat as much as I do …:)

At the same time, I’m going to pursue a new pack, because I want to and can.  I am also concerned about how comfortable my little pack would be with over 20 pounds in it and don’t want to decide I should have bought a another pack when I’m halfway through a 120 mile hike.

Thank you again for your response.  Will probably think about this for a day or two and then order a pack.

James,

Really appreciate your detailed explanation of how you get as much as possible out of your Murmur.  I’m intrigued and intend to see if some of this won’t work for me.

I have never used the Kumo in temperatures in overnight low’s below the mid-teens, but have used it on several trips in that range.  In fact my preference is for trips with highs in the 30 and 40’s.  I do a little winter camping, but have dogs for that, so when temps are dipping below zero I hook-up a sled and take a hot tent and leave the backpack at home.

I do think I’ll try to incorporate a tarp outside of bug season and see how much room that frees up and then go from there.  I am not sure about a tarp alone during peak bug season.  I do a lot of my hiking in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area and the bugs can get intense.   Not like on the tundra, but bad enough and am not willing to suffer swatting bugs all night, if I don’t have too.

I still intend to look at another pack for a little more range and perhaps for slightly colder temperatures,  but am also intrigued by the prospect of pushing what I have beyond my comfort range.

James,  Thanks for the heads-up on the review on Section Hiker.  I’ll check it out this evening.

Had some time this weekend so packed the Kumo using a tarp (8 x 11 cuben) that I already had., as per James suggestions  Definitely save some space vs the Hexamid I normally carry.  Did not save enough for me to fit in 14 days of food, but was able to squeeze in food for 10 days, though pack is more “stuffed” than I’d like.  May need to scrutinize the rest of my pack load and see if there is anywhere else I can save volume.

In any case, thinking about using this pack for an upcoming trip so long as bug season holds off.  In a normal year I would not worry about bugs in mid to late April, but this winter has not been normal, so no reason to expect spring to be normal either.

I still plan to order a larger pack in the next week or so. Have now narrowed it down to either a 55 liter Helios (seems like a huge pack, but weight is not much worse than the 40 liter and per Jenifer’s comments looks like it will compress well) or a Elemental Horizons Kalais which seems to slot into a size range between the Helios 40 and 55 and also seems to get good reviews.

While I respect James’ experience I would have to say he is an unusual human.  I cannot imagine a Kumo holding 14 days food unless it is all olive oil and peanut butter and then there would be no room for the pistol I would need to finish myself off after eating such a boring diet at about day 7.  It will still take perfect weather and conditions so that you do not need room for any kind of extra clothing or shelter.

You will be happy with a bit larger pack with some more structure too.  You may have seen my piece on looking for such a pack that ended in a Kalais but I looked at many that you also are thinking about too.

Thanks for the additional input Alex.  It all really helps as I try to sort this out.  While I really like the Kumo (it’s great for the majority of my trips that are usually 2 to 5 days in length), it is looking either very tight (or impossible) for me to push it to a trip twice that length, which is why I am seriously looking for a new pack.

I do have older, much heavier packs with plenty of capacity, but don’t really want to use a 4+ pound pack to haul a 23 to 25 pound load.  My search led me to the Katabatic packs with most seem very impressed with and the Kalais which also seems to be well constructed and well thought of.  I’m sure either will serve well, so just need to make a decision

Thanks also for the link to your website post.  I had seen it and it is one of the reasons I started to look at the Kalais seriously.