Jacket based sleeping system

[HkNewman]

Encountering many different temperatures on trail, wondering if a jacket-based system, kind of like climbers using an elephants foot in conjunction with a poofay jacket, would be ideal?

Of course there’s a need for a fitting bivy or tarp at least for rain/snow.

[Ken Thompson]

Some conditions yes.

[Matthew / BPL]

I’m very interested in this approach as well. I like the idea of a warmer jacket around camp with an elephants foor around night. I’d be curious to hear from anyone that has used this type of setup and know more about what kind of conditions this setup can works with.

[HkNewman]

Maybe a quilt/footbox type “elephants foot”? Talking about cutting those last ounces, amigos y amigas!!
It’d have to be cold enough to warrant a typical hikers puffy for meals/hanging out, but not too cold where one would need to maybe combine a puffy with a sleeping bag (lows around 0-20°F .. and below). Most hikers would want comfort, though a FKT type or trail runner out for 1 night might not care that much.

Add: just thoughts, no experience in the matter

[Paul S.]

You’d need a pretty heavy jacket for this to work or warm weather.  I’ve done this in conditions where I brought a 5 oz down jacket for hanging around camp with friends but it didn’t get too cold at night so I left the jacket on and only had to cover my legs.  I could have taken my jacket off and used my quilt to cover my torso but I was so comfy in my jacket I didn’t want to remove it.

The nice thing is you don’t need to worry about drafts since a jacket is fitted but I don’t see how it would ever be lighter than a quilt.

[David Thomas]

Back in the mid-1980s, I’d go without a sleeping bag by wearing all my clothes at night.  That worked fine down to about 40F.  At 25-30F, I didn’t sleep so well.  I did have a 2/3-length Thermarest – the original orange one, and would set up a tarp.  A modern, light puffy down jacket would have helped – I was using Patagonia expedition-wt thermals, a fleece top and pile pants with a rain layer on the outside to block the wind and trap warm air.

One advantage is you just get up in the morning and start your day.  You don’t have to get out of your warm sleeping bag.  As the day warms up or your activity level increases, you peel layers off.

40 years ago, REI had a down-insulated bib with zippers on the inseam that could be unzipped and rezipped into a 2/3-length sleeping bag to bivouac on a mountain.  I was never convinced the added complexity was worth the slight reduction in surface area and the ability to rub your legs together.

[Katherine .]

I’ve been thinking about it because:

*We have a kid’s 30 degree EE Revelation. It was a rather extravagant gift for a kid who will eventually outgrow it. I’d like to repurpose it.

*I like to sleep with my head insulated with my Hadron anorak. I like hooded jackets and it seems redundant to bring a separate sleeping hood.

*Now that I have a proper, differential-cut 20 degree hammock underquilt I can relieve the Jr. quilt from that repurposed duty. Given the conventional wisdom that the UQ warmth is more important than the top warmth, the hammock set-up might be a good way for me to try that out. (and I’m usually solo for hammocking, so the Jr quilt is free)

 

[Dale Wambaugh]

I’ve always thought a puffy and elephant foot bag made sense on the multi-use/weight factor, but it hasn’t caught on. Adding a bivy sounds good too.

Using your puffy with a lighter quit is an option. Perhaps a differential quilt with less insulation at the top?

[Edgar H]

I met a hobo who had a neat sleep system,  he had his winter coat along with a child size synthetic sleeping bag,  which came up to his lower back.

Pretty light and versatile, and replaceable.

[Rex Sanders]

I have a ridiculously warm Snow Lion synthetic puffy jacket from the late 1970s. I’ve spent 2-3 nights wearing that, with a blanket or other insulation around my legs.

Mostly, it sucked.

I was either way too warm and sweaty, or warm and sweaty with patches of freezing cold depending on zipper openings, blanket gaps, etc. Much harder to control temperature, maybe because my arms were in their own little sleeping bags. Not enough room to put arms inside the jacket body, so that wouldn’t help.

Bivouac / suffer fest / better than freezing to death – OK.

Actually get a good night’s sleep, night after night – I didn’t find the magic formula.

YMMV.

— Rex

[JCH]

I tried several times to go with just my down parka, down pants and down socks…no bag or quilt.  It never worked well for me even in the mid-to-upper 40s!  I’m not sure why, but if I had to guess I suspect it had to do with too LITTLE dead air retained within the system.  I hypothesized that the extra dead air space between the quilt/bag and my body was a significant contributor to my warmth.

Regardless of the reason…I was not comfortable and abandoned the concept after 2 attempts.

[Edgar H]

If you use a jacket that’s big enough to pull your arms inside while its fastened up, a size or two larger than a regular fit,  you can pull the arms of the jacket inside as well for extra insulation,  filling much of the extra space.

[Mike M]

I carry such a system when doing day snowshowsoe/ski trips where is always a chance of an unexpected night out

last year I decided to give it a try in a snow trench- it worked pretty well- an eVENT bivy helped a lot as did the snow trench. The down parka comes along regardless, so just adding 8-10 oz for a down elephant foot/bivy/pad

I’ve got a new plan for this upcoming Bob Open- an Apex hooded jacket in conjunction with an Apex elephant foot. The difference being these will be used for short durations3-5 hours and then moving again.

Check out Nunatuk’s new Apex jacket/elephant foot collection

[jared h]

It can work if you have enough of a loft layer and a bivy. i’ve had decent success with down pants and jacket in a bivy, or elephants foot and bivy top over a down jacket, but not with jacket/pants that aren’t covered by a shell layer. only makes sense if you are bringing the layers anyway…i do it on climbing trips because i already have belay clothes, or on trips with lots of camp time, but not really for more active trips because i would only use those layers at night, and a bag/quilt is easier to carry.

[brian H]

Nunatak has a half bag 20F comes in at 9 oz…

[Mike M]

from last winter, about 20 degrees that night- custom HG half bag and OR Incandescent parka- MLD eVENT bivy, z-rest pad with some natural insulation added

 

snug as a bug :)

 

[nunatak]

Outside of the climbing world, I think it works really well in situations where the recovery stops are brief and numerous, such as adventure racing, FKT’s etc.

 

 

[HkNewman]

….adventure racing, FKT’s etc.

 

That makes sense.  Thanks for all the posts, everyone.

[let_scamp]

PHDesign make half bag and jacket combos that look pretty neat.

[Edward John M]

I’ve been using the system for decades.

It works; but it seems to work best for most people if it is in addition to an UL sleeping bag for most situations. Using an oversized UL bag for very mild weather and adding gear to it is my solution. Lately tho I have been using my new Nunatak oversized APEX quilt rather than the LW synthetic sleeping bag.

Any of the current crop of 5C/ 0C down half bags works but after using half bags most of my life I would say that anything lighter or less warm isn’t going to be worthwhile buying, if you don’t need that amount of warmth a synthetic half bag would be a better choice and very, very easy as a DIY project

[Allen C]

Surprised no one has mentioned the FF Vireo yet on this thread. Seems like a better solution than a true half bag (for backpacking) as it would allow you to carry a midweight down puffy instead of a warmer heavier puffy, and keep your arms in the bag to keep the heat in, but has less fill on the top half to leverage the warmth of your puffy.

[Mike M]

Ron did a similar thing with Apex in the FKT

[Allen C]

Mike, I hadn’t looked at the FKT quilts in a while, good point. Also just read your post above again – having a bivy sack with a half bag plus warmer down jacket sounds like a good system as well, since the bivy will help keep your heat inside.

[Mike M]

yeah the bivy definitely helps with retaining warmth (as well as helping keep out unwanted weather)

I’ve been itching to try out my Apex combo, but our weather hasn’t been cooperating at all- we’re almost 40 degrees below “normal” and “normal” isn’t overly warm :)

[Art …]

it really boils down to your definition of comfort. a little light shivering can do wonders to loosen up the muscles after a long day. I’ve done 2 light layers and a rain suit on summer Sierra trips and it was adequate for the intentions of the trip. the thing I like about breathable rain suits is they can hold in a lot of warmth and substitute for  a bivy sack in mild conditions (stick your feet inside your pack). But a more leisurely trip would call for something more.

[Author]

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